Pick off from windup

[Sayhey]

Why is it illegal for an in contact pitcher to step and throw to an occupied base from the wind up position. It is ok in o.b.r. but Federation rules have it as illegal.

[Rich Ives]

Because it is. FED operates in mysterious ways.

[Sayhey]

Mysterious is one way to say it. What is the thought process? You are writing the Fed. rule book and trying to justify your job and paycheck -" let's see. I know, let's make a pickoff from the wind up illegal. Yeah, that's a good one. That's mysterious. No one will question the great Fed. rules master."

[sdix00]

I have heard that there is a heavy non-baseball influence in the FED.    These are contributors who come from a scholastic background rather than a baseball background.   So there are tons of rules that supposedly improve the "fairness" in the game. 

 

It got so bad up through the nineties that umpires were required to call automatic outs when baserunners missed bases.    

 

I hear it's getting better, slowly. 

[Jocko]

I have heard that there is a heavy non-baseball influence in the FED.    These are contributors who come from a scholastic background rather than a baseball background.   So there are tons of rules that supposedly improve the "fairness" in the game.  It got so bad up through the nineties that umpires were required to call automatic outs when baserunners missed bases.     I hear it's getting better, slowly. 

Some states still call that

[Umpire in Chief]

That one has never made sense to me.

[noumpere]

I think that if you asked most players they would think that its illegal in all codes to pick off from the wind up so maybe FED has it right and the others have it wrong.

 

Or maybe whoever put the rule in thought that it was the same rule as in all codes and its just never been corrected.

 

Or maybe some coach somewhere tried to cheat on it a little bit and the umpires weren't good enough to catch it so they just made it illegal -- the lowest common umpire reasoning.

[bjones630]

I live in an area that we need to know at least 3 different rule books for Summer Baseball.  OBR, FED, and the one for another state which is NOT clearly documented in any way shape or form.  And some teams that when you ask "What rule book are we using, Coach?" answer with "Regular high school"  which could be either FED or Legion OBR.  In those cases I try to defer to OBR, and really wish a lot of the stupid contradictions between FED and OBR would be eliminated.  Dead ball appeals, pickoff from the wind up position, immediate dead ball on a balk, mandatory at least 1 base award on obstruction, the third to first fake pickoff play. It would make our jobs a lot simpler to only need to know 1 rule book with minor variations, as opposed to 2 completely different mechanics and rulings for the same play.

[sdix00]

I counted the differences from the back of J/R once.   I counted 128. 

[bam]

I live in an area that we need to know at least 3 different rule books for Summer Baseball.  OBR, FED, and the one for another state which is NOT clearly documented in any way shape or form.  And some teams that when you ask "What rule book are we using, Coach?" answer with "Regular high school"  which could be either FED or Legion OBR.  In those cases I try to defer to OBR, and really wish a lot of the stupid contradictions between FED and OBR would be eliminated.  Dead ball appeals, pickoff from the wind up position, immediate dead ball on a balk, mandatory at least 1 base award on obstruction, the third to first fake pickoff play. It would make our jobs a lot simpler to only need to know 1 rule book with minor variations, as opposed to 2 completely different mechanics and rulings for the same play.

I live in an area that we need to know at least 3 different rule books for Summer Baseball.  OBR, FED, and the one for another state which is NOT clearly documented in any way shape or form.  And some teams that when you ask "What rule book are we using, Coach?" answer with "Regular high school"  which could be either FED or Legion OBR.  In those cases I try to defer to OBR, and really wish a lot of the stupid contradictions between FED and OBR would be eliminated.  Dead ball appeals, pickoff from the wind up position, immediate dead ball on a balk, mandatory at least 1 base award on obstruction, the third to first fake pickoff play. It would make our jobs a lot simpler to only need to know 1 rule book with minor variations, as opposed to 2 completely different mechanics and rulings for the same play.

Oh yeah? I got FED, modified FED (Middle School), summer legion OBR, AAU modified FED, NCAA for prep/private, BabeRuth and various Fall ball rule sets that more closely resemble the charter of some third world hell hole than organized baseball. Make do.

[scrounge]

I live in an area that we need to know at least 3 different rule books for Summer Baseball.  OBR, FED, and the one for another state which is NOT clearly documented in any way shape or form.  And some teams that when you ask "What rule book are we using, Coach?" answer with "Regular high school"  which could be either FED or Legion OBR.  In those cases I try to defer to OBR, and really wish a lot of the stupid contradictions between FED and OBR would be eliminated.  Dead ball appeals, pickoff from the wind up position, immediate dead ball on a balk, mandatory at least 1 base award on obstruction, the third to first fake pickoff play. It would make our jobs a lot simpler to only need to know 1 rule book with minor variations, as opposed to 2 completely different mechanics and rulings for the same play.

 

Luckily, I'm in an area where virtually all games are Fed. Right or wrong, at least it's only one book to know. And frankly, I don't really get the angst over dead ball appeals. I just don't see it as that big of a deal. The windup and immediate dead ball on balks? Sure, no real need, but at least it's uniform. And it's not really fair to slam FED for having the 3rd to 1st fake pickoff when OBR just changed it themselves a few weeks ago.

[mstaylor]

I don't have a problem with dead ball appeals, dead ball balks are stupid, I like a 3-1 move so I don't have a problem that Fed didn't change it. 

[Guest sayhey]

I had a 12 yr. old execute a smooth and athletic pick off attempt from the windup position with the bases loaded. R-3 was safe. There was no deception. The pitcher simply stepped straight to third and threw. No one thought it was illegal except the offensive coach. The coach wanted me to balk in a run by enforcing Fed. rules on a 12 yr. old. We are leading off and comming set at the age of 10 here. Today a coach wanted a balk on a 3-1 move since it is now illegal in O.B.R. It's getting crazy! How about 1 rule book with a safety slide rule for youth?

[noumpere]

Don Quixote had more success than you guys will by tiliting at this windmill.  And, frankly, I think he had a better cause, too.

[mstaylor]

I work multiple sports and have the same problem in those sports too. I run softball tournaments and there are at least six different books for that. Any sport having the same set of rules is a pipe dream that just ain't going to happen. 

[johnnyg08]

I had a 12 yr. old execute a smooth and athletic pick off attempt from the windup position with the bases loaded. R-3 was safe. There was no deception. The pitcher simply stepped straight to third and threw. No one thought it was illegal except the offensive coach. The coach wanted me to balk in a run by enforcing Fed. rules on a 12 yr. old. We are leading off and comming set at the age of 10 here. Today a coach wanted a balk on a 3-1 move since it is now illegal in O.B.R. It's getting crazy! How about 1 rule book with a safety slide rule for youth?

 

Every time a pitcher throws over it's an attempt at deception.  There's legal deception and illegal deception.

[Bumps]

Okay, not sure what I am missing here, but 6.1.2, "With his feet in the wind up position, the pitcher may only deliver a pitch or step backward off the pitcher's plate with his pivot foot first."

This is pretty clear as to why a pitcher can't do the aforementioned.

[noumpere]

Okay, not sure what I am missing here, but 6.1.2, "With his feet in the wind up position, the pitcher may only deliver a pitch or step backward off the pitcher's plate with his pivot foot first."

This is pretty clear as to why a pitcher can't do the aforementioned.

I thinki the poster knows that and hes asking why the rule is what it is, not what the rule is that makes it so.

[bam]

Because its easier for the umpires.

[JaxRolo]

Okay, not sure what I am missing here, but 6.1.2, "With his feet in the wind up position, the pitcher may only deliver a pitch or step backward off the pitcher's plate with his pivot foot first."

This is pretty clear as to why a pitcher can't do the aforementioned.

fed only

[Sayhey]

If you buy the Jaska/Roder rules book you will see that a pick off attempt from the wind-up position is a legal move. The Jaska/Roder book will give you the Fed. rules differences. What is more difficult? Memorizing two rules or having just 1 rule. I am positive that a new umpire could learn that a legal step from an in contact pitcher in the wind up position is a legal move. Some moves are more deceptive than others. My 12 year old simply stepped to third and threw. R-3 read move and dove into 3rd base and was safe why should this part of baseball be eliminated because some Fed. rule writer thinks it is too difficult for an umpire to figure out. You could have a game where it is illegal and then 1 week later the same pitcher can make the move. Seems unnecessary. A home run was hit by a visiting team in a Fed. game on a balk. U.I.C. did not call time. Home coach walks out and wants to know what's up. U.I.C. says,"coach, you go over there and tell a 16 yr. old player that his homer does not count because your pitcher balked". coach turned and walked back to the dugout. We wrote to the Feds. and asked why a balk is a dead ball. That no logical answer

[johnnyg08]

If you buy the Jaska/Roder rules book you will see that a pick off attempt from the wind-up position is a legal move. The Jaska/Roder book will give you the Fed. rules differences. What is more difficult? Memorizing two rules or having just 1 rule. I am positive that a new umpire could learn that a legal step from an in contact pitcher in the wind up position is a legal move. Some moves are more deceptive than others. My 12 year old simply stepped to third and threw. R-3 read move and dove into 3rd base and was safe why should this part of baseball be eliminated because some Fed. rule writer thinks it is too difficult for an umpire to figure out. You could have a game where it is illegal and then 1 week later the same pitcher can make the move. Seems unnecessary. A home run was hit by a visiting team in a Fed. game on a balk. U.I.C. did not call time. Home coach walks out and wants to know what's up. U.I.C. says,"coach, you go over there and tell a 16 yr. old player that his homer does not count because your pitcher balked". coach turned and walked back to the dugout. We wrote to the Feds. and asked why a balk is a dead ball. That no logical answer

 

 

Because umpires don't know how to call it.  That's why the FED rule is different.  

[mstaylor]

Fed rules are different for one of four reasons. 

1. safety-FPSR for example

2. participation-CRs and DH can hit for any position.

3. sportsmanship-Always punishing Obstruction, verbal obstruction.

4. LCD is lowest common denominator. They try to make it easier by simplifying the steps, sometimes it makes it worse. The balk is dead is an example, they kill it in all situations so umpires don't have to figure out the exceptions. Sometimes they come up differences that make sense, picking from the wind-up is an example. 

[Sayhey]

If the pitcher rolls through a stop and hangs a curveball and the batter hits it out the pitcher should pay for his mistake. It should be live. In O.B.R. the balk is ignored if the batter and all runners advance 90 ft. on a batted ball or an award. If the batter does not make it to 1st base somehow, someway, and all other runners do not move up at least 90 ft.- enforce the balk and call it no pitch, and put the batter back in the box. Is that too difficult to learn. You could always get together as a crew and get it right. The idea of keeping it live is the batter deserves the right to at least advance to 1st base since the pitcher did deliver a pitch. It is not the batter's fault that the pitcher balked before pitching.

[Mike Prince]

If the pitcher rolls through a stop and hangs a curveball and the batter hits it out the pitcher should pay for his mistake. It should be live. In O.B.R. the balk is ignored if the batter and all runners advance 90 ft. on a batted ball or an award. If the batter does not make it to 1st base somehow, someway, and all other runners do not move up at least 90 ft.- enforce the balk and call it no pitch, and put the batter back in the box. Is that too difficult to learn. You could always get together as a crew and get it right. The idea of keeping it live is the batter deserves the right to at least advance to 1st base since the pitcher did deliver a pitch. It is not the batter's fault that the pitcher balked before pitching.

You're preaching to the wrong choir here. The people who write the rules need to hear this argument, not the ones tasked with enforcing the rules (no matter how little sense they make).