What do you have?

[James Walker]

In a OBR scrimmage last night. 1 out, R3. Ball hit to RCF. I out, kid drops the ball, I signal and verbal " no catch". Bust back in to take the play at second. F4 is to the third base side on second. B/R rounds first and is headed to second. F4 misses the throw but thinks he has it, and true to make a "play" on b/r. B/R, seeing that the ball passed F4 slows down to stop at second and both players bump into each other. I verbal "that's nothing" and the play ends because F6 has the ball and I believe B/R wasn't trying to advance past second. I believe I got it right, but obs/inf is something that I have trouble with at times. So, what do you guys think?

Also, same play. F6 gets lazy and doesn't back the play up. B/R tries to advance. I know to call obs, and let play continue. But since contact happened before second, could I protect the runner to third? Or just second?

[James Walker]

Okay, but if the PU has R3, some one has to have the following runner and play at second, right?

[James Walker]

Ball was hit in right center field, bringing F9 towards center. My responsibility correct?

[MidAmUmp]

You don't leave the infield (dirt/grass line) with runners on base.  Work to the grass/dirt line and observe from there.

 

In your actual game situation (if I understand it correctly) I wouldn't have obstruction.

 

In your "what if" situation...Once the ball clearly gets by the 2nd baseman and he has no play it becomes Type B obstruction since no play is currently being made on the B/R.  You would place him where you feel he would have reached had the obstruction not occurred.

[noumpere]

Also, same play. F6 gets lazy and doesn't back the play up. B/R tries to advance. I know to call obs, and let play continue. But since contact happened before second, could I protect the runner to third? Or just second?

In OBR you don't need to protect him at all since there wasn't a play being made on him.  In FED, you must protect him to at least second.  In both, you could protect him to third, if that's where he would have ended up with no OBS.

[James Walker]

My bad, when I said went out I meant to the grass. The ball was sharply hit, so I barely got to the cut out for catch/no catch.

So no play equals type b. You can place runner where you think they could have advanced.

Type A is if a play is being made. They get base they were going to.

Correct?

[Thunderheads]

My bad, when I said went out I meant to the grass. The ball was sharply hit, so I barely got to the cut out for catch/no catch.

So no play equals type b. You can place runner where you think they could have advanced.

Type A is if a play is being made. They get base they were going to.

Correct?

but you said you "busted back in " ...........................

[guyinaredhat]

take the play from the inner grass cut out.

 

Sounds like you went out to the outer grass cut out.  

[James Walker]

Like I said, ball was hit sharp. After the ball hit the ground, I saw B/R was 4 or 5 steps off first. So I did the wrong thing and cheated that way, and got caught flat footed. Had to bust back to the working area.

This is only my second year not being a smitty. In years past, we used the ol' PU got everything in the OF rotations. But now we use "big boy" rotations, still getting used to it, but its getting better. Of the games I've worked or evaluated, there's only been 5 or 6 missed rotations. That has led to A LOT less kicked calls cause someone wasn't in the right position.

[James Walker]

take the play from the inner grass cut out.

 

Sounds like you went out to the outer grass cut out.  

I did, but like I said, messed up and got caught flat footed. Live and learn.

[noumpere]

My bad, when I said went out I meant to the grass. The ball was sharply hit, so I barely got to the cut out for catch/no catch.

So no play equals type b. You can place runner where you think they could have advanced.

Type A is if a play is being made. They get base they were going to.

Correct?

Not correct.  If it's A then it's still the base they would have reached but there's also a one base minimum.

[JaxRolo]

Seems like the story keeps changing.

[pnewton]

If this is an OBR game (which original post says it is) then "Type A" and "Type B" obstruction don't exist, there is just obstruction.  Once the ball got passed F4 he can no longer be making a play on the B-R so this is not an immediate dead ball.  Wait for the play to end (F6 picks up the ball) and then decide where the B-R would have ended up without being obstructed being sure he gets to at least the next base after the obstruction.  In this case it sounds like the obs was before 2nd and he wasn't going to make it to 3rd.  

 

I would have signaled and called obs when it happened just because, but then leave it be when the play ends.

[noumpere]

If this is an OBR game (which original post says it is) then "Type A" and "Type B" obstruction don't exist, there is just obstruction.  

That's 180 degrees removed from the actual facts.  OBR had type A and B.  NCAA has Type 1 and 2.  They exactly correspond.

 

FED has no types. -- it's always delayed deqad and there's always a minimum to which the runner is protected.

[mstaylor]

James:

Your sitch was a little tough to follow but as stated, take the catch/no catch from the infield. Then pick up the BR, decide if he is advancing or staying. In the OP, there is no violation, or it doesn't sound like it. If the ball gets by the F6, you have to judge if the contact caused the runner to stop, if so it's obstruction. If so you then have to decide if he gets third or stays at second. Either is acceptable in a type B award. 

[pnewton]

Uh, descendant of Sir Isaac, the very names "type A" and "type B" obstruction come from their corresponding rules (7.06 a and b respectively) in the official rules, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

Maybe someone who knows FED can enlighten because it seems he's confused, but under OBR, unless you have Type A OBS, there is no requirement to ensure anybody makes it anywhere after an obstruction call. 

 

 

I apparently must apologize as I have not encountered the terms "type A" and "type B" and I guess I made an assumption they were coming from the other rule set.

 

I stand by my call from above, if maybe not the interp.  There is no way I am going to let an obstructed runner be called out at the base that he was headed toward (I do recognize the possibility of a runner being obstructed on their way to re-touch while a play exists somewhere else, in that case I am only letting him return).

[grayhawk]

Uh, descendant of Sir Isaac, the very names "type A" and "type B" obstruction come from their corresponding rules (7.06 a and b respectively) in the official rules, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

Maybe someone who knows FED can enlighten because it seems he's confused, but under OBR, unless you have Type A OBS, there is no requirement to ensure anybody makes it anywhere after an obstruction call. 

 

 

I apparently must apologize as I have not encountered the terms "type A" and "type B" and I guess I made an assumption they were coming from the other rule set.

 

I stand by my call from above, if maybe not the interp.  There is no way I am going to let an obstructed runner be called out at the base that he was headed toward (I do recognize the possibility of a runner being obstructed on their way to re-touch while a play exists somewhere else, in that case I am only letting him return).

 

What if he's thrown out by 20 feet?  There are times where a runner is obstructed, it's called, and then they think they have a free pass to the next base.  This is not the case and we, as umpires, should not allow it.

 

If there is any doubt as to where I should protect the runner to, then I will give him the benefit of the doubt.  However, if I judge that he was not going to reach the next base, then I am not going to award it to him.

[noumpere]

 

Uh, descendant of Sir Isaac, the very names "type A" and "type B" obstruction come from their corresponding rules (7.06 a and b respectively) in the official rules, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

Maybe someone who knows FED can enlighten because it seems he's confused, but under OBR, unless you have Type A OBS, there is no requirement to ensure anybody makes it anywhere after an obstruction call. 

 

 

I apparently must apologize as I have not encountered the terms "type A" and "type B" and I guess I made an assumption they were coming from the other rule set.

 

I stand by my call from above, if maybe not the interp.  There is no way I am going to let an obstructed runner be called out at the base that he was headed toward (I do recognize the possibility of a runner being obstructed on their way to re-touch while a play exists somewhere else, in that case I am only letting him return).

 

What if he's thrown out by 20 feet?  There are times where a runner is obstructed, it's called, and then they think they have a free pass to the next base.  This is not the case and we, as umpires, should not allow it.

 

If there is any doubt as to where I should protect the runner to, then I will give him the benefit of the doubt.  However, if I judge that he was not going to reach the next base, then I am not going to award it to him.

Right.  Just like in the world series or maybe playoffs a few years ago.  correctly called to get the out much to the consternation of the announcers and fans. 

[mstaylor]

That was Tejada, obstruction was called and he slowed to a trot and got thrown out at the plate. The calling umpire, the lead rules guy at Harry's if I remember correctly, let the out stand. If he had continued to advance then either would have made it or it would have been close enough to protect him to home. It was a type B obstruction, correctly called and properly enforced. The rest of the story was earlier in the game the same umpire had a type A obstruction where he killed the ball and awarded third. Caused the announcers heads to blow up. 

[cyclonehokiece]

That was Tejada, obstruction was called and he slowed to a trot and got thrown out at the plate. The calling umpire, the lead rules guy at Harry's if I remember correctly, let the out stand. If he had continued to advance then either would have made it or it would have been close enough to protect him to home. It was a type B obstruction, correctly called and properly enforced. The rest of the story was earlier in the game the same umpire had a type A obstruction where he killed the ball and awarded third. Caused the announcers heads to blow up. 

I kinda wish Tim He-who-shall-not-be-named's actually would.