Positioning Question

[BRUMP]

For those of you that work high levels of ball you probably rarely if ever see this play but at the ages where the kids are just starting to move to the big field it happens quite frequently. What is the correct positioning for a ball hit to right field and the F9 comes up throwing to 1b. (I'd be starting from A.)

[JamesC]

Normally, if there's a possibility of an actual play (not just some irrelevant attempt), then I bust inside to about the base path and turn to see the play. Not entirely into the infield, but still in the dirt. This has worked best for me. There may be an actual mechanic for this, but I have never heard of it. I think it's more of a working preference and opinion.

[Richvee]

I see this a lot on 50/70 fields, and, like you said, in younger kids on the big field. You can usually tell when this kind of play might happen. I haven't had a problem busting in like I would on any hit, and keep an eye on the F9 to see if he's coming up throwing to first. If he is, I find it fairly easy to stop and pivot almost on the line between 1st and 2nd. That seems to give me a good angle. I had an F8 try to throw out the BR Saturday on a 50/70 field! I was already in and pivoting to see the BR touch first when the throw was on it's way, so I was ready and that was a fine angle for that throw. 9BR beat it out...just barely)

The real problem comes on the hard hit line drive that you deem a trouble ball and stay out for a possible trap/catch call. Then you need to see if PU read you staying out and see if he's got the play @1st. If he doesn't, you just have to turn and get the best angle possible from the OF grass.

[Jocko]

Read the play as usual. If it's trouble, go out even if it turns out youur initial read was wrong. HP better be paying attention and have his ass in gear.

Routine hit to F9, run in, pivot, and read

Possibility for 9-3 putout --- BUST ASS INSIDE, pivot, and read. Worst thing you can do is get caught chasing the BR to 2B because you didnt get in correct position. Inside, inside, inside.

For the record, this happens on occasion in HSV

[JaxRolo]

I like to take these in foul territory. Get a good angle on it.

[Fittske24]

I treat this type of play just like a ground ball hit to deep 2nd and you read pressure. This play starts well before the ball is put in play. Like a quarterback that makes pre-snap reads, the base umpire should make a pre-at bat read. What I look for is where F9 is playing. If he is playing way in there is a possibility that a sharply hit ball could result in an attempt to retire the batter runner at 1st. I disagree with busting in. The base umpire should pause, read F9... If F9 is charging hard then there is a possibility of a play at first. This also puts you in good position to judge a sinking line drive. I usually take a step or two off the line, keeping my chest to the ball, reading the throw, then setting up for the play at 1st.

[BRUMP]

Guys thanks for the responses. I see Kens point and I think that it is probably the easiest way to still get a good angle.

[AZump78]

I like to take these in foul territory. Get a good angle on it.

Stay out of foul territory... BAD, BAD BAD habit, especially in 2 man.

[JaxRolo]

I like to take these in foul territory. Get a good angle on it.

Stay out of foul territory... BAD, BAD BAD habit, especially in 2 man.

No not BAD. I don't mean go 15 feet into foul territory. Read it stay near the line and adjust as needed.

In short fields is not a problem I can keep up with these kids.

[Jocko]

I treat this type of play just like a ground ball hit to deep 2nd and you read pressure. This play starts well before the ball is put in play. Like a quarterback that makes pre-snap reads, the base umpire should make a pre-at bat read. What I look for is where F9 is playing. If he is playing way in there is a possibility that a sharply hit ball could result in an attempt to retire the batter runner at 1st. I disagree with busting in. The base umpire should pause, read F9... If F9 is charging hard then there is a possibility of a play at first. This also puts you in good position to judge a sinking line drive. I usually take a step or two off the line, keeping my chest to the ball, reading the throw, then setting up for the play at 1st.

if the throw from F9 is errant, do you ever find yourself out of optimum position for the ensuing play at 2B?

I did just what you described, the ball got past F3, and the speedy BR slid into 2B with F6 applying the tag. Problem was, I had to avoid BR rounding 1B and I got to the working area late. I was busting it, just not fast enough for these quick kids. BTW, 60/90.

[Fittske24]

I treat this type of play just like a ground ball hit to deep 2nd and you read pressure. This play starts well before the ball is put in play. Like a quarterback that makes pre-snap reads, the base umpire should make a pre-at bat read. What I look for is where F9 is playing. If he is playing way in there is a possibility that a sharply hit ball could result in an attempt to retire the batter runner at 1st. I disagree with busting in. The base umpire should pause, read F9... If F9 is charging hard then there is a possibility of a play at first. This also puts you in good position to judge a sinking line drive. I usually take a step or two off the line, keeping my chest to the ball, reading the throw, then setting up for the play at 1st.

if the throw from F9 is errant, do you ever find yourself out of optimum position for the ensuing play at 2B?

I did just what you described, the ball got past F3, and the speedy BR slid into 2B with F6 applying the tag. Problem was, I had to avoid BR rounding 1B and I got to the working area late. I was busting it, just not fast enough for these quick kids. BTW, 60/90.

No. This is why it is important not to take this play in foul territory AND why reading the quality of the throw is key. Remember the runner in this situation is running to beat out the throw, so he is not rounding the bag. If the throw is off line i.e. high or in the dirt, the base umpire should be taking a read step for possible swipe tag or pulled foot. This should help you start moving into the infield should the throw get past F3. Next thing is the base umpire should run in a direct line into the working area while keeping their eye on the ball. If you are good enough at anticipating the poor throw and subsequent play at second, you should be able to make it into the working area. If you are great, you can make it in to the cut out :-)

This is no different than a ball that takes F4 deep into the hole close to the line making the play at 1B. You certainly wouldn't bust in on that, so what do you do when that throw goes errant?

[noumpere]

I treat this type of play just like a ground ball hit to deep 2nd and you read pressure. This play starts well before the ball is put in play. Like a quarterback that makes pre-snap reads, the base umpire should make a pre-at bat read. What I look for is where F9 is playing. If he is playing way in there is a possibility that a sharply hit ball could result in an attempt to retire the batter runner at 1st. I disagree with busting in. The base umpire should pause, read F9... If F9 is charging hard then there is a possibility of a play at first. This also puts you in good position to judge a sinking line drive. I usually take a step or two off the line, keeping my chest to the ball, reading the throw, then setting up for the play at 1st.

if the throw from F9 is errant, do you ever find yourself out of optimum position for the ensuing play at 2B?

I did just what you described, the ball got past F3, and the speedy BR slid into 2B with F6 applying the tag. Problem was, I had to avoid BR rounding 1B and I got to the working area late. I was busting it, just not fast enough for these quick kids. BTW, 60/90.

PU can take the runner to second in this case while BU now goes with the ball and has out of play responsibilities.

But those are the two options - to come in and pivot and be ready or to stay a step or two foul. Either can work and which one is better depends on the specific play and how quickly and accurately it's read. when I did those levels sometimes I would use both in the same game just because the plays were slightly different.

[Jocko]

I treat this type of play just like a ground ball hit to deep 2nd and you read pressure. This play starts well before the ball is put in play. Like a quarterback that makes pre-snap reads, the base umpire should make a pre-at bat read. What I look for is where F9 is playing. If he is playing way in there is a possibility that a sharply hit ball could result in an attempt to retire the batter runner at 1st. I disagree with busting in. The base umpire should pause, read F9... If F9 is charging hard then there is a possibility of a play at first. This also puts you in good position to judge a sinking line drive. I usually take a step or two off the line, keeping my chest to the ball, reading the throw, then setting up for the play at 1st.

if the throw from F9 is errant, do you ever find yourself out of optimum position for the ensuing play at 2B?

I did just what you described, the ball got past F3, and the speedy BR slid into 2B with F6 applying the tag. Problem was, I had to avoid BR rounding 1B and I got to the working area late. I was busting it, just not fast enough for these quick kids. BTW, 60/90.

No. This is why it is important not to take this play in foul territory AND why reading the quality of the throw is key. Remember the runner in this situation is running to beat out the throw, so he is not rounding the bag. If the throw is off line i.e. high or in the dirt, the base umpire should be taking a read step for possible swipe tag or pulled foot. This should help you start moving into the infield should the throw get past F3. Next thing is the base umpire should run in a direct line into the working area while keeping their eye on the ball. If you are good enough at anticipating the poor throw and subsequent play at second, you should be able to make it into the working area. If you are great, you can make it in to the cut out :-)

This is no different than a ball that takes F4 deep into the hole close to the line making the play at 1B. You certainly wouldn't bust in on that, so what do you do when that throw goes errant?

good point. I didnt take the read step which put me out of position. Little things, my friend. Great post!

[mstaylor]

You have to pause and read the play, just like anything else hit to right. If you read it as a possible throw back to first, stay on the line or slightly fair. If the throw is off you should be able to react toward second faster than the runner. Or, the PU should call you off and take the runner to second himself and let you take the possible OOP ball.

[spiritump]

foul is the last place to go unless the play takes you there---it should not be the first choice

[Replacematt]

PU can take the runner to second in this case while BU now goes with the ball and has out of play responsibilities.

How? PU is going to be on the line. No chance in hell he can move quickly enough to get an angle at 2B.

[scrounge]

Why not? If the ball isn't a potential fair/foul the PU may not be right on the line but rather in front of home. In any case, he has a more direct route to 2B than the BU, who has to stop for the play and may have runners/fielders in the way. Not saying it HAS to be the PU at 2B, but it certainly could work. I wouldn't expect it as BU unless I heard my partner call me off, though.

PU can take the runner to second in this case while BU now goes with the ball and has out of play responsibilities.

How? PU is going to be on the line. No chance in hell he can move quickly enough to get an angle at 2B.

[krwill96]

The PU would be on the first base line looking for pulled foot, swipe tag situation for help. This is either a situation you pregame or its a quick read by the plate guy and he turns and runs to second on a bad throw saying "I got second."

As a base guy you're anticipating taking the play by busting in after the runner goes by you unless you are called off by the plate guy. Remember angle over distance in this situation.

[dddunn3d]

Simple really: watch the ball and move while doing it. F4 makes a play, you're 2-4 steps fair. Ball gets by F4, you're moving in the right direction...keep going, but watch the ball (and glance at the batter-runner). F9 charges hard and comes up firing, you're in the right place.

[mstaylor]

The PU is not going to be on the line on this play. When the ball is hit to right the BU has to read it. If it is on the line or a trouble ball he is going out. If it is neither the PU is going to take the catch from the working area, nowhere near the line. In his read the PU has to determine if there is going to be a possible throw to first from the F9, if so then where is the best angle. That will be somewhere between 2 steps fair and slightly in foul. There is no reason from there the PU can't take the runner to second and let the BU roll foul for the OOP ball. It is not something you would pregame, it is done on the fly as it happens.

[dileonardoja]

IF you are worried about this then just pregame it. There is no prescribed mechanic. If you want to play it like a "F4 pressure" then pregame it and do it. IF everyone knows there job and executes there won't be any surprises.