GrandSlam

[dl1340]

13uAAA USSSA tournment. Home team is up 6-1 in fourth inning. Visting team has bases loaded, two outs. Batter hits a GrandSlam, runner on third touches home plate. Runner from second, as he touches third base and running towards home, takes off his helment and throws it in the air in celebration. Home team, coach waits until all runners have crossed home plate, appeals to Field Ump that runner on second takes off his helment while running bases, after a discussion. Runner from second bases is ruled out, only one run is counted, inning over. Is this correct, shouldn't it be a dead ball. I think a warning should have been issued to the player. Visiting coach, got very upset with umpires.

[soapbox]

Home coach sounds like a good guy.

[Rich Ives]

13uAAA USSSA tournment. Home team is up 6-1 in fourth inning. Visting team has bases loaded, two outs. Batter hits a GrandSlam, runner on third touches home plate. Runner from second, as he touches third base and running towards home, takes off his helment and throws it in the air in celebration. Home team, coach waits until all runners have crossed home plate, appeals to Field Ump that runner on second takes off his helment while running bases, after a discussion. Runner from second bases is ruled out, only one run is counted, inning over. Is this correct, shouldn't it be a dead ball. I think a warning should have been issued to the player. Visiting coach, got very upset with umpires.

NO ONE has a rule that allows an out for removing a helmet.

Those that require a warning usually say it can't be removed during a live ball.

This was a dead ball.

No problem.

Ump's an idiot.

[JaxRolo]

WOW!!!

Picky, picky.

I'd think I would give a warning. I don't think its a big deal.

Who made the ruling BU or PU. Or did they talk to each other?

[Rich Ives]

WOW!!!

Picky, picky.

I'd think I would give a warning. I don't think its a big deal.

Who made the ruling BU or PU. Or did they talk to each other?

I sure hope you're not suggesting that you could have called an out.

[JaxRolo]

I sure hope you're not suggesting that you could have called an out.

nononononononono

I totally agree with your first response. UMP is an idiot for calling the out.

[jjb]

Not a Utrip rule. The HT coach suckered both umpires and the VT coach, (who should have protested). Shame on everybody.

[mstaylor]

I agree with Rich, the umpire is an idiot as was the HC. The VC was a close third for not protesting. Should have been 6/5 and keep playing.

I have stressed this over and over on the internet and in classes I teach, if you don't agree with an umpire's ruling on a rule question, then protest. If you don't then you don't get to complain after the game. It's like not voting, you can't complain about elected officials if you don't vote.

[spiritumpa]

it is not even a warning--when the ball left the field it is ruled a award--the runners are not advancing during a live ball. I do not think the umpire is a dope--maybe trying too hard to be a ump--as he/she works more and learns more--hope the the ump gets better and learn from this and someday can look back and see his/her mistake.

[spiritumpa]

NO ONE has a rule that allows an out for removing a helmet.

Those that require a warning usually say it can't be removed during a live ball.

This was a dead ball.

No problem.

Ump's an idiot.

I guess you and the others who call the ump a idiot never ever --ever --ever made a wrong ruling on the field where you do not have a rule book to look at.

[mstaylor]

It may a harsh statement but if he is like many that I have seen try to be Mr big deal but refuses to actually learn the rules then he is an idiot. If he did it out of inexperience I would retract the statement. Unfortunately I have seen too many in youth sports and particularly at tournaments making calls with rules pulled from a very smelly orifice. If I am being unfair then I am sorry but that is how I feel about it.

[Rich Ives]

I guess you and the others who call the ump a idiot never ever --ever --ever made a wrong ruling on the field where you do not have a rule book to look at.

This ranks up there with the "high five" out.

No clue.

[BrianC14]

I agree with Rich, the umpire is an idiot as was the HC. The VC was a close third for not protesting. Should have been 6/5 and keep playing.

I have stressed this over and over on the internet and in classes I teach, if you don't agree with an umpire's ruling on a rule question, then protest. If you don't then you don't get to complain after the game. It's like not voting, you can't complain about elected officials if you don't vote.

+1.

I hestitate to blame the head coach, though. Sure, he's a jerk for suggesting something like this to the umpires, but he's just doing what all coaches attempt to do: find a loophole. But there's no rule against being a jerk.

Of course, he didn't really find a loophole, but he did find himself with two umpires who didn't know diddly squat about the rules, and so that in itself is his loophole.

The umpires blew it, plain and simple. Their only response should have been something like this: "Nice try, coach, but no soap. Now have a seat while we tally the four runs."

The only blame here is on the two guys who are supposed to know the rules. They clearly didn't - and visiting team got screwed because of their ignorance. And why blame the visitor's coach? Remember, we umpires are known to openly mock coaches because they "think"they know the rules; we all "know" that coaches are rules dunces; so this particular visitor's coach was just one of many - hard to blame him for being only as ignorant as most other coaches out there.

Edited October 6, 2010 by BrianC14

[Thunderheads]

Here's the sad thing ... (in my eyes at least) ...

If you're the umpire's in this situation, and you're not sure about the rule that a coach is proposing you enforce ... how do you enforce it??? Especially in this situation??

1) "coach ... I'm not aware of this" ...if he INSISTS (in this situation only) ...you look at the rulebook to confirm

2) It's as if you don't see a tag, you don't have an out. You don't / aren't aware of a rule, ..you can't enforce it, ..right?:bang:

[Rich Ives]

Here's the sad thing ... (in my eyes at least) ...

If you're the umpire's in this situation, and you're not sure about the rule that a coach is proposing you enforce ... how do you enforce it??? Especially in this situation??

1) "coach ... I'm not aware of this" ...if he INSISTS (in this situation only) ...you look at the rulebook to confirm

2) It's as if you don't see a tag, you don't have an out. You don't / aren't aware of a rule, ..you can't enforce it, ..right?

Tell the coach what your ruling is. Do NOT say "I'm not aware" because that just makes you look unprepared (maybe you are but don't advertise it).

If he officially protests THEN you can consult the book.

[Thunderheads]

Tell the coach what your ruling is. Do NOT say "I'm not aware" because that just makes you look unprepared (maybe you are but don't advertise it).

If he officially protests THEN you can consult the book.

Rich, good point, and I understand what you're saying. My description wasn't the best...what youre' trying to tell the coach by "not being aware" of the ruling , is a nice way to say, ..."I think you're wrong" ....but ....like I said, ...it can/could 'advertise' that you don't know ....

[mstaylor]

Here's the sad thing ... (in my eyes at least) ...

If you're the umpire's in this situation, and you're not sure about the rule that a coach is proposing you enforce ... how do you enforce it??? Especially in this situation??

1) "coach ... I'm not aware of this" ...if he INSISTS (in this situation only) ...you look at the rulebook to confirm

2) It's as if you don't see a tag, you don't have an out. You don't / aren't aware of a rule, ..you can't enforce it, ..right?

+1 Jeff, you can't enforce a rule that you think the coach may have.

[Thunderheads]

+1 Jeff, you can't enforce a rule that you think the coach may have.

Thanks, ...that was actually my point ;)

[kylejt]

I guess you and the others who call the ump a idiot never ever --ever --ever made a wrong ruling on the field where you do not have a rule book to look at.

How 'bout "that's an idiotic ruling"?

[spiritumpa]

How 'bout "that's an idiotic ruling"?

I will go for that ---the ruling was extremly idiotic--and if the umps make that mistake again then the umps will be idiots ;)

[boyinr]

I know this may be a little off the topic but, this exact situation is covered in the HFHS Case Book. If they had read this manual and understood the rule they should not have screwed this up. I know that some folks have issues with Fed rules but, I have always found the case book to be a valuable learning and reenforcement resource. Maybe it is my learning style but, I consider this to be a lot more clear and understandable than the Rules Book. Is there such a resource for OBR?

[mazzamouth]

Do you see why I DO NOT umpire any games under HS...

With that said, there is no way you guys should be calling some one out for removing a helmet during a dead ball play...;)

[JaxRolo]

Do you see why I DO NOT umpire any games under HS...

With that said, there is no way you guys should be calling some one out for removing a helmet during a dead ball play...

I have 2 10U games tonight. Pray for me!!! :bang:

[noumpere]

I know this may be a little off the topic but, this exact situation is covered in the HFHS Case Book. If they had read this manual and understood the rule they should not have screwed this up. I know that some folks have issues with Fed rules but, I have always found the case book to be a valuable learning and reenforcement resource. Maybe it is my learning style but, I consider this to be a lot more clear and understandable than the Rules Book. Is there such a resource for OBR?

There's no case book as in FED. But, there is the Umpire's Manual, Evans Annotated Rules, Jaksa & Roder, etc.

[Rich Ives]

There's no case book as in FED. But, there is the Umpire's Manual, Evans Annotated Rules, Jaksa & Roder, etc.

Get the MLB Umpire Manual and the PBUC manual first. There are the OFFICIAL rulings.

Evans - you'll need to know someone who has one.

J/R is from rulesofbaseball.com

If you do LL games get their Rules Instruction Manual.

I personally rate then

1 MUBUM

2 PBUC

3 Evans

4 J/R