What is your thought on the "neighorhood play"?

[buddywilshire]

Anyone have any thoughts? Mine is that if the SS or 2B is trying to turn to aslong as he touched the back at some point I will give it them, even of when they have the ball they aren't on. If it is a play where they are only going to be able to make a play at 2B, they have to be on the bag.

Just wondered what others think.

[calablue]

:ranton:I'm probably gonna get reamed by some of the guys on here for this, but oh well. I hate the " in the neighborhood" crap. Why should the offense be cheated out of a runner just so the defense doesn't have to take the time to get it right? A runner is out on a force play if the base is touched while the defender has control of the ball. I guess I'm just an ass, but in the neighborhood doesn't get an out with me. Do it right or you don't get the call.:WTF

[DirtyDawg]

Had a girl pull her foot off the bag trying to turn a double play in my tournament last weekend. Boy was the stand suprised when I didn't call the girl out! Oh well!!

[Rich Ives]

There should never be a neighborhood play. It was bogus when invented and even more bogus now with all the new slide rules.

[PeteBooth]

Anyone have any thoughts? Mine is that if the SS or 2B is trying to turn to aslong as he touched the back at some point I will give it them, even of when they have the ball they aren't on. If it is a play where they are only going to be able to make a play at 2B, they have to be on the bag.

Just wondered what others think.

The Neighborhood Play and Phantom Tag has been around and accepted in baseball for approximately 100 years or so UNTIL the advent of Replay.

It's a safety factor. There was also an old adage when you are OUT you are OUT. It works the same way for both teams so no one is getting "hosed"

In general terms, on a force play in which the runner is out by a good margin, throw "right on" as long as F4/F6 is in near vicintity of the bag = OUT.

Phantom Tag - Throw "right on" Glove where it should be = OUT whether a tag was actually applied or not.

The aforementioned concepts were around "forever' until as mentioned the advent of Super SLO MO replay.

Now the Neighborhood Play / phantom tag are things of the past and one of these years a Star player will be lost and then the critics will say "How come the umpire did not give him the neighborhood.

IMO, The Phantom Tag / Neighborhood exist in most amateur leagues. When TV is involved (ala MLB and the NCAA WS) then they are "out the window"

For the ball I call I still subscribe to those "back in the day" calls that we all grew up with.

Pete Booth

[BrianC14]

:nod::Horse:B):Horse:

You just never know about some people and their situational ethics :Horse::Horse: :Horse:

[Dragon29]

For me - No Neighborhood play; no Phantom tag.

I guess I just wouldn't know how much lee-way to give them.

Is the neighborhood 6" on a slower play and a foot on the fast ones?

How close do you have to be to get the 'phantom' call.

Some will say I'm being too strict; I'm gonna get someone hurt

I say:

Catch the ball - touch the base

Tag the runner.

It has nothing to do with replay or video or even the spectators. Play ball.

[mstaylor]

The purpose of the neighborhood play was safety for the middle infielder. As long as timing was right, the touch was less important. A bad throw and all bets were off. The younger ages, no such thing but crashing the turn guy wasn't done either. Whether you call it or not is a personal choice.

[noumpere]

If the defense doesn't make me look too closely, I assume they touched the base. If they make me look, I judge by what I see.

[txump81]

Had one on the softball field this year. I'm in B with a R1. Groundball to F4 who attempts the tag and I am blocked out by the R1. F4 then turns and throws to F6 at 2B. Obviously the tag was missed, but I didn't know until the turn.

I tell players when I have helped coach to sell the out. If you "tag" a runner go ahead and throw to the next base.

[SRP]

I don't give the "in the neighborhood" call.

Would OC accept in the neighborhood when F3 pulls his foot?

Would DC accept in the neighborhood when R1 misses second?

Make the play and you'll get the call.

[catoblue]

I don't believe in the neighborhood play or phantom tag either. I call what I see.

[Scuzzyfeller]

My 2 cents!

Neighborhood play;

I played the middle WAY too many years and was never afraid to ask a BU what they might let me get away with before LIVE action....gift of gab I guess...explain how I "like" to make the turn...I'll be close enough...etc.

I don't give an ARMS length and I don't give a full STRIDE STEP...but if the bag can be reached easily enough...good enough for me....but by all means I'm not giving it if there's enough eyesight room for me to drive a truck through.

I agree that with the new slide rules we have now it is probably more ENFORCED by the younger family members in blue....easier to teach the younger generation...and the "old dog new tricks" thinking I guess.

Phantom tag;

From the B or C position unless the tag is a "dead nuts bulls-eye there it is" tag.....there is NO FREAKING WAY we will ever know if the middle infielder EVER tags a sliding or non sliding runner on a tag attempt on the outfield side....unless with the swipe attempt you can see daylight.

Scuzz

[jjb]

Infielders want the NP, because they don't want to get crashed on the pivot. They ALSO want the "slide or avoid/FPSR" enforced, so they don't get crashed on the pivot.

Uh-Uh, can't have it both ways. Take your choice. If you've got one, you can't have the other.

[Umpire in Chief]

If the defense doesn't make me look too closely, I assume they touched the base. If they make me look, I judge by what I see.

I like this. Just make it look good so we don't even have to worry about it.

[noumpere]

I agree that with the new slide rules we have now it is probably more ENFORCED by the younger family members in blue....easier to teach the younger generation...and the "old dog new tricks" thinking I guess.

I think: 1) Sites such as this are dominated by newer umpires at younger levels, and the neighborhood play / phantom tag doesn't apply as much at those levels.

2) It got out of control at MLB for a while, but replay has reined that in a bit.

3) The hand (and foot) is quicker than the eye, and slo-mo replays at MLB show that often what looks like a neighborhood play, isn't.

[Guest]

First, in Canada, there are no OBR modificiations by B-Can / Baseball Ontario that even come close to the FPSR or whatever else applies in US ball. In other words, as long as the cleats are down and the slide is OBR legal, everyone is fair game.

Feelings here are that small diamond kids, 13U and below still need to legitimately touch the base to get the out. Once they hit thee big diamond and 14U, they can wear steel cleats so we begin to cut them some slack. Personally, I enforce the small diamond thought until 16U.

It's already been summed up nicely: if they don't make us look too hard, then fine. Requirements for that are a "natural progression of events" - fielder catches the ball, clean transfer, and he comes through the back of the bag reasonably close.

What I work, they expect this call, and unless I have a damn good case, I'm going to catch far more SH*# for not making this call then I am for making it.

[jim knight]

The Neighborhood Play and Phantom Tag has been around and accepted in baseball for approximately 100 years or so UNTIL the advent of Replay.

It's a safety factor. There was also an old adage when you are OUT you are OUT. It works the same way for both teams so no one is getting "hosed"

In general terms, on a force play in which the runner is out by a good margin, throw "right on" as long as F4/F6 is in near vicintity of the bag = OUT.

Phantom Tag - Throw "right on" Glove where it should be = OUT whether a tag was actually applied or not.

The aforementioned concepts were around "forever' until as mentioned the advent of Super SLO MO replay.

Now the Neighborhood Play / phantom tag are things of the past and one of these years a Star player will be lost and then the critics will say "How come the umpire did not give him the neighborhood.

IMO, The Phantom Tag / Neighborhood exist in most amateur leagues. When TV is involved (ala MLB and the NCAA WS) then they are "out the window"

For the ball I call I still subscribe to those "back in the day" calls that we all grew up with.

Pete Booth

Pete and I will never see eye to eye on this subject... I do not agree with any of his thoughts. Oh well to each his own...

[Dragon29]

An example of this happened last night in the Orioles-Giants game.

R1 - 0 Out - ball hit to Juan Uribe (F6) who tosses it to F4 (Freddie Sanchez) Sanchez crosses behind 2B, never getting any closer than 9" at best, is all the way past the base by the time he catches the ball and fires it to F3 (Buster Posey) for the out at 1B.

I'm a Giants fan and (without any slo-mo replay) I'm thinking, "Crap, he missed the bag" but no. U2 Rob Drake calls the Out on the front end. Orioles manager Juan Samuel comes out to argue w/Blake but we all know that's going nowhere. During the argument, they show the play a few times and of course looks even worse.

Sanchez was not in jeopardy of getting spiked or crashed; R1 (I forget which Orioles player it was) was not even close to 2B when it happened. IMHO, this made a good umpire look bad.

[Stan W.]

I call what I see within the limitations of the umpiring system I'm umpiring in........

What I can see is directly altered by doing 2 man, 3 man or 4man....

[Thunderheads]

.....What game /series in the 09 post season saw a neighborhood play NOT called??

He was called safe ...

And if I remember correctly....the people in that thread were discussing that maybe it was because F6 never even tapped the bag at all ??

lood at 2:40

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7080893

:)

Edited June 17, 2010 by Thunderheads