jimurrayalterego

Does that mean marginal pitches should be strikes?

I just noticed @Vikki request for a cite. One of these two would apply depending on the timing: "6.02(a) (1) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery; (7) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate;"

It is a disengagement. But if you see the hands come apart before the pivot foot lands it would be a balk. When I say see I mean see. Any snap throw or move like this that is done quickly we usually accept it as a disengagement.

I responded to the OP and you together. Stop listening to the fence. The OP did not even get what the @ManinBlue possibly perceived as a prayer disparaging the VB official and asking for God's help for him. I think my fence comment could be sarcastic. I think I did accuse you of being supportive of an umpire who kicked a coach (deservedly or not) and being unhappy that you did not see the kick land. But I fail to see any inflammatory rhetoric unless you consider me encouraging you to lead an umpire strike inflammatory. The OP asked us to respond to this: "I'm just very confused to know what this all means and how I am supposed to feel so...I'm going to listen to the complete recordings of Emerson, Lake and Palmer and think about things for awhile. By all means, if you have any insights, brothers...spiritual or otherwise, please...do chime in." I have no clue what Emerson, Lake and Palmer mean. But I did respond with do not listen to the fence.

And now I really am sensing some pent up whatever. But as I'm not insecure, I treat this as coming from the fence.

In my neck of the woods HS and College pay is not low and while fans can complain as usual we have the ability to stop them. Have you given up all baseball or just the low level leagues where this could happen. Are you going to lead a "strike" of your association members. On the other hand maybe you should advocate for us to physically abuse coaches and fans that abuse us. You seemed to support that with the ump that went off on the coach.

Sounds like you are listening to the fence too much.

For the purpose of an appeal a balk is defined as a play in the rulebook. An "err" is not called a play but it also precludes an appeal. MLB has defined "play" for us in the MLBUM: 18. PLAY OR ATTEMPTED PLAY Rules 5.06(b)(4)(G), 5.09(c): The following interpretation of “play or attempted play” applies to both awarding of bases (Official Baseball Rule 5.06(b)(4)(G)) and appeal plays (Official Baseball Rule 5.09(c)): A play or attempted play is interpreted as a legitimate effort by a defensive player who has possession of the ball to actually retire a runner. This may include an actual attempt to tag a runner, a fielder running toward a base with the ball in an attempt to force or tag a runner, or actually throwing to another defensive player in an attempt to retire a runner. (The fact that the runner is not out is not relevant.) A fake or a feint to throw shall not be deemed a play or an attempted play. EXAMPLES: A play or attempted play: (1) Runners on first and second, ground ball to the shortstop, who makes a swipe at the runner from second but misses and then throws beyond first base into the stands. Ruling: The swipe by the shortstop is an attempted play; thus the throw to first is not the first play by an infielder (even though it is the first throw), and the proper award of bases would be from the time of the throw. (2) Runner on first and ground ball to second baseman who flips ball to short to get runner from first but who is safe. Shortstop throws beyond first into the stands. Ruling: The flip by the second baseman to the shortstop is an attempted play, even though unsuccessful. The throw to first is not the first play by an infielder and thus runner should be placed from the time of the throw. Runner who was on first would score and batter-runner would be placed at second. Not a play or attempted play: (1) A fake or a feint to a base but not actually throwing, even though the fielder draws an arm back to feint a throw. (2) A pitcher feinting a throw toward a base to hold or check a runner’s progress in order to complete an appeal play at another base. (3) Runner on first, ground ball to the shortstop, who starts to flip the ball to the second baseman but does not and throws the ball beyond first and out of play. Ruling: The feint to the second baseman is not considered a play or attempt ed play, and award of bases is from the time of the pitch. (4) Runners on first and third, runner on first stealing as ground ball is hit to shortstop. The shortstop feints a throw home but does not throw—instead throws to first and into the stands; during this time the runner from first has rounded second base. Ruling: The feint by the shortstop toward home is not considered a play or attempted play; thus the throw beyond first is the first play by an infielder and awards should be made from the time of the pitch.

If the throw went to 1B why not call the out? There is no abandonment prior to touching 1B but interps allow us to call it as desertion. At one time abandonment removed the force on other runners but the MLBUM changed that.

You have to distinguish between "mound" and "pitcher's plate" (rubber). The pitcher only has to take the rubber to make the ball live. So if your LH F1 took the rubber, umpire put ball in play, and F1 threw the ball to 1B for a legal appeal the defense could then throw the ball to 3B if they were appealing there. F3 could throw it there. Yes a throw from the rubber has to satisfy stepping to the base and most pitchers are coached to step off to appeal.

I was sensing some pent up whatever and was going to refer you to some psychobabble until I saw the emogi.

Your point?

The batter and a fielder in front of him such as F1 and /or F3 might be held to a higher standard than the batter and F3 F2 both running in the same direction for different purposes even halfway down the line?

The comment doesn't specify "leaving the box" or "immediate vicinity" but we seem to remember some interp/guidance that we can't cite.

Before NCAA changed to match OBR they thought a fairer approach was to only advance runners that were stealing.

I made a weak case for Tangle Untangle on the YT comments. Baker actually had INT on Ramirez at one point which meant he had Wong still in the act of fielding. If Baker had Wong fielding shouldn't he have had a "that's nothing" at that point and let the tag out stand. "Rule 6.01(a)(10) Comment: When a catcher and batter-runner going to first base have contact when the catcher is fielding the ball, there is generally no violation and nothing should be called. “Obstruction” by a fielder attempting to field a ball should be called only in very flagrant and violent cases because the rules give him the right of way, but of course such “right of way” is not a license to, for example, intentionally trip a runner even though fielding the ball. If the catcher is fielding the ball and any fielder, including the pitcher, obstructs a runner going to first base, “obstruction” shall be called and the base runner awarded first base."

I wasn't confused.

I inferred from the OP asking about ball or strike and mentioning a "jump" that it was a pitch. The OP seems to know a runner hit by a throw is nothing.

What else you are doing is watching R2 touch 3B, which is easily done while clearing the bat with Evan's technique.

And all three codes now call it the same. NCAA matched OBR a few years ago

No it's not nothing. The ball becomes dead and runners advance 1 base "5.06(c)(8) Any legal pitch touches a runner trying to score; runners advance." The PU calls the pitch and if it was a strike 3 we use: "5.09(c)(14) With two out, a runner on third base, and two strikes on the batter, the runner attempts to steal home base on a legal pitch and the ball touches the runner in the batter’s strike zone. The umpire shall call “Strike Three,” the batter is out and the run shall not count; before two are out, the umpire shall call “Strike Three,” the ball is dead, and the run counts."

Even Pros can mess up the more esoteric sits, as you do remember the ball 4 balk.

" If I had seen F5 jockeying the way he was, I feel it is a clear obstruction, award home since he was played on. " I had it as Type 2 since there was a throw but no runner to play on at HP. "helpful if we knew why he didn't call it" Since the manager said "they don't call it" in the postgame I'm guessing they've been told not to call after the first call and no call recently.

Another no call. Offense is OK with it because it's never called. Has MLB told umps to ignore it?