jimurrayalterego

Would it be OBS this year in MLB?

Why is the ball dead on the disengagement?

Sat. 8/5 BOS SD. I asked about this on Refmasters but probably won't get feedback there. The Youtube clip does not have enough camera coverage to tell what exactly happened and even my MLBTV doesn't show enough to decide but it appears that they balked a hidden ball trick when F1 engaged. But from the MLBTV I see U3 and U1 calling time after the rundown. We don't know how the ball got back to Machado but when F1 takes the rubber Buckner does not point it live either because he knows there is no ball or because he doesn't point most of the time. My screengrabs and Youtube link: Machado’s hidden ball trick costs the Padres a run - explained

If you have Evan's video would you agree that it has similar examples that he would not balk?

You can see F5 start toward 3B before F1 stepped off. A play might have been on. But I can see not judging it legitimate.

Or not a "legitimate" pick off attempt?

It looks like a jab step but with his hands staying together as he steps off I think we can say he stepped of. But why a pitch clock violation? He made a play on the runner.

Do you think the MLB ump was about to call INT in the play I posted?

That's a good stopping point. Otherwise we wander into MSU territory, also visited in another current post.

There was no awarded base. He's out.

Thanks for finding this video. Nothing was unclear. There was no problem to rectify. LL has not changed from older OBR so it was Type B with the same "at risk" comment. LL probably wants to disappear how R2 was put back on 3B after being put out at HP. Ump conference or gather at the backstop with the protest crew?

All codes point it when IT happens. There might or might not be an immediate verbal. If you point it you have to enforce it. Type 1 in OBR and NCAA and any OBS in FED has you award at least 1 base. We have had threads here where we agree to be sure you have OBS, as per the definition, before you commit to point.

We do point it in FED with a subdued verbal. The arm out to the side has gone away. It's up to the players and coach to know how it's enforced. A few MLB clips should have everyone knowing what not to do.

Last out or Courtesy Runner if applicable. Batting spot skipped over with no penalty.

That was a caseplay for the rule referenced. It's not in the rulebook. The rule is pretty simple, except it's not, but your OP has no legs. For a coach to be pedantic he would have to have rules knowledge. I only know of two, @Coach Carl and @beerguy55. They might some more pedantic coaches but most are not pedantic they are argumentative.

Sorry, it's in the 2025 "Make the Right Call" in the Rules App.

The 2025 Rim says you can eject right away without a warning.

I stepped on your post so OBR is covered. FED allows the umpire to rectify any reversed umpire decision that placed either team at disadvantage.

Doesn't have to be Video Review: From OBR 8.02(c) ". If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the initial call, disregarding interference or obstruction that may have occurred on the play" Interesting that NCAA only addresses it with Video review Time to start playing for 4 or 5 outs. I think I saw it a year or two ago in MLB. But I don't think I would score R2 unless the count was 3-2.

I've tried parsing and rationalizing but I don't think I succeeded. I'm guessing LL parsed their own rule. "If, in the judgement of the umpire, this behavior is occurring, the team manager and those responsible including any player(s), coach(es) shall be warned after the first offense. Those responsible including any player(s), coach(es), and / or manager shall be ejected from the game for a team's subsequent offense." Player 1, the responsible person, was warned along with the manager. Player 2, the next responsible person, did not commit a subsequent offense to a prior one by himself. So no ejection for him. And the managers and coaches were not responsible. The sticking point to my rationalization is "a team's" but I'm guessing that's LL's story and they're sticking to it.

CCS does not have an ump fanboy gossip thread but they show up on whatever ejection thread is current. Suggest you go there.

You don't have to lose focus. You and me both jumped to answer the Refquest OP where a balk was called, pitch was thrown and F2's throw went into the outfield and R1 ended up at 3B. Obvious call as time should have been called when the pitch was caught and the balk enforced. R1 back to 2B. A sharp ump named Greta mentioned that the MLB umpires who posited the sit did not give the count which makes a big difference on enforcement. If ball four our answers were wrong. MLB umps gave a sit where they didn't realize the count mattered and we didn't even ask for the count but enforced the balk. But the take away is NFHS should stay with dead ball balks or do some version of coach choice. The other take away for those that advocate for live ball balks in their OBR leagues is "you don't know what you don't know". Peruse the Refquest thread to see how some college umpires don't know the correct enforcement of balks. And find the MiLB screwup on Twitter. Do these guys get any rules training from TUS?

They wouldn’t know the nuance of the balk rule. Some years back I think it was Jerry Layne who called a balk and a wild pitch was thrown. If I remember right while he called time the catcher was in no rush to retrieve the pitch and the runner showed no intention of advancing. These plays that involve the esoteric side of the rule are rare and might often involve a screwup. MiLB just had one also.

Cue in the advocates of NFHS OBR live ball balks.

Amateur league’s using OBR probably will add that restriction but OBR does not require removal from sight and sound