jimurrayalterego

Haven't rewatched video yet but my first impression is two partners coming in to cowboy coach as PU walks away. Coach does not stop and ump who fell backs up and trips over partner's foot. But that partner also had a hand on him to what seemed to be backing him away. Coach says in his presser that ump that fell got up and gave him 2 games for bumping.

Yes. That was my Friday night diatribe. I was thinking I would get some grief over that run on sentence but I hit submit anyway. But is the WRIM the source of the latest official interps? Have they changed their order of appeals interp to the latest Umpire School interp which we discovered when one of our posters started a discussion about it.

You are sticking to a, not "the" published interp that is in conflict with precious interps, those being not official, but at this point even WUM would not be official. We would await MLB's official interp, and explanation, coming from, who would be that entity, TUS?, as to why Machado was not guilty of INT or even why that review of foul down the line was correct, which was correct and MLB just lets fans rant as idiots. Who is responsible for MLB interps at this point in time. They won't even demand the broadcasters to have a knowledgeable person explain rules applications except for an Apple TV game where a retired ump did explain one plain and then silent about a more nuanced play. We are going to use the OBR rules as written with the help of unofficial, Jim Evans, J-R, BRD, resolving or not some of their conflicts, and call it in our games as appropriate. MLB will be along soon to clarify. Uh no.

It's Section 67, Batter Interference in the BRD. But I'm thinking the note is Carl's opinion and not from the JEA. But, since some interps go back and forth over the years, order of appeals being an example, we need the latest from The Umpire School, or whatever it's called.

Since the batter did not "miss" 1B there can be no appeal. The umpire has to judge whether the batter refused to advance. How the umpire judges that is up to interp but some well respected rules gurus say to tell the batter to advance. If he refuse we use this rule: "5.08 (b) When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base. Rule 5.08(b) Comment: An exception will be if fans rush onto the field and physically prevent the runner from touching home plate or the batter from touching first base. In such cases, the umpires shall award the runner the base because of the obstruction by the fans. PENALTY: If the runner on third refuses to advance to and touch home base in a reasonable time, the umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending player and order the game resumed. If, with two out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch first base, the umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending player, and order the game resumed. If, before two are out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch first base, the run shall count, but the offending player shall be called out." NFHS would allow that appeal. NCAA I have no idea how they would handle it. In CR/BR/OBR it could be argued that no appeal is required for the ump to deem refusal or that the ump should request an advance before deeming refusal. Since most think the reason for the rule is to simplify game endings in such situations I believe the ump should say "hey go to 1B." and then apply the rule if needed.

Do you have a JEA or BRD. Carl cites Jim as calling a play at the plate different than a passed ball. More verbiage from WUM's chapter might help us decide if Jim is no longer correct. This is from my 2011 BRD. Carl uses PI as a professional interp from JEA:

I lost my WUM but seem to remember that as confusing. The batter is also a player who needs to vacate any space needed by a fielder to field a throw. There was no "catcher's play at home base" to allow not "making any other movement". What would help is a pic of more of the WUM verbiage where they cite the rules they are interpreting. I used to take a pic and upload it. Sometime U-E would have to disappear it due to copyright but it would be there for awhile.

If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base.

I wonder if the OBR "refrain from touching" somehow was triggered.

That was strange. If it's not assist it's nothing.

I've yet to see that published cite. Although I do believe that's how it's called in MLB but you can't stop me from using the rule language in any code to call it.

Uhh, Inning, outs, top or bottom. Or do i have to time stamp this and rewind my recording 28 minutes.

If they are partially out but will be legal to hit I will leave it alone unless Pitcher or Catcher complains but technically he is not legal and you can tell him to move: ":8. BATTER’S POSITION IN BATTER’S BOX Rules 5.04(b)(5), 6.03(a)(1): When the batter assumes a batting stance in the batter’s box, he shall have both feet entirely within the batter’s box; i.e., no part of either foot may extend beyond the outer edge of the lines defining the box when the batter assumes a position in the box. There is no penalty specified for violation other than the batter shall be instructed to stay within the batter’s box if brought to the attention of the umpire, or—if blatant or recurring violation—upon immediate direction of the umpire. If a player, after so directed by the umpire, blatantly refuses to comply, the player is subject to ejection. See Official Baseball Rule 5.04(b)(5). Under Official Baseball Rule 6.03(a)(1), if a batter hits a ball (fair, foul, or foul tip) with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box, the batter shall be declared out. See Official Baseball Rule 6.03(a)(1). TO CLARIFY: There are two different rules regarding the batter’s position in the batter’s box. Official Baseball Rule 5.04(b)(5) requires the batter to have both feet within the batter’s box when assuming an initial position in the box prior to hitting (no portion of the foot may be outside the line under this provision, although no penalty is prescribed other than the instructions given above). Official Baseball Rule 6.03(a)(1) provides that the batter be declared out if he hits the ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box. (So long as any part of the foot is touching any part of the line when the batter hits the ball, he is within the rules.)

As far as I know most 2-man mechanics use it any time the PU has RF fly ball responsibilty. Common sense will determine if a rotation is off in sits where it would be used.

He started the conversation and never came back. I thought I'd give him a hint when he showed up here.

That is how we call it but it would be nice, acknowledging @beerguy55, if they added "entirely" or "completely" to the foul definition.

You don't think that's good advice for a guy that posted this and didn't acknowledge any of the corrective posts in that thread. I do admit to getting snarky with guys that shoot from the hip. "R2; other runners don't matter. F1 disengages legally and throws to F4, who's still at least 8 feet from 2B. I had never seen this until this year, but now I've seen it three times in 2 weeks. How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?"

How about battle testing a rule book?

A good idea but this call was correct and slight off angle of view did not cause miss judgement of ball position. Even Boone got it right when he said “a quarter of the ball was over the line” in the postgame. What he got wrong was the rule.

Correctly called as per MLBUM interp and Foul Ball Definition. But how are we calling similar in our venues which may not have the delineation to exactly determine half the ball was not over fair? The definition is basically the same in all codes: "First falls on foul ground beyond first or third base."

Similar sitch, bases loaded, humpback to near the mound, F4 diving but it hit his glove and dropped in front of him, triple play. G.G a really good coach comes out to first year 6A fill in emergency ump. Was that an IFF. Me, "no it wasn't ordinary effort." How about intentional drop. Me "no he didn't try to drop it. You got screwed." Coach smiled and walked away. My partner told the "you got screwed" story for quite a while after that.

From 2019 MLBUM: 60. "(i) It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pickoff move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pickoff move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base."

Did he know it was delayed dead and had a brain fart or did not actually know it was delayed dead. Yes "delayed dead" is not a rulebook term.

This was RLI no matter what.

In all codes a legal feint, which only requires a step toward the base, with the pivot foot coming off the rubber, is a legal disengage and makes the pitcher an infielder who can feint anywhere. When the third to first was allowed in OBR/NCAA they required the pitcher to break contact with the rubber before he could throw or feint to 1B. NFHS allows for the awkward move of remaining engaged but does not allow a feint to 1B if that ever happened. Confirmed in the 2013 interps when the other codes disallowed the 3-1: SITUATION 8: With runners on first base and third base, the pitcher legally steps toward third and feints a throw. With his pivot foot now off the pitching plate, the pitcher turns and feints a throw to first base. RULING: This is a legal pick-off play by the pitcher. (6-2-4a,b) SITUATION 9: With runners on first base and third base, the pitcher legally steps toward third and feints a throw. With his pivot still engaged with the pitching plate, the pitcher turns and feints a throw to first base. RULING: This is a balk. While engaged with the pitcher’s plate, the pitcher may not feint toward first base. The runner from first is awarded second base and the runner from third is awarded home. (6-2-4a)