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Just today I saw a post about the new Force 3 mask....oops, not April's Fools...

Just today I had a new guy ask me if new guys get any post season assignments. I told him no because the new guys are assigned to be the Ball/water boys for the varsity guys during playoffs. He believes me!

Good stuff here. Pause, read and 90+% of the time, U1 goes out. This is almost always a trouble ball. Even if it's a trouble ball it's still U3s ball. U1 shouldn't be going out when the ball is hit anywhere near center or anywhere inside of the right fielder with a runner on first. If it's a trouble ball U3 can bust the line and go out to make the call while U1 can go into the library and read the play for possible tag up or for a possible play into first. This is how we do it in pro ball.

At the beginning of the OP, there is no way you are going to have a force out in this situation under any circumstances. With only 2nd and 3rd occupied, neither of these runners are "forced" to go anywhere. However, this is a good question to raise--and get terminology correct. This is a good reminder for all of us--Rule 2 in NFHS is the definitions. If you understand definitions, it will pay dividends in dissecting a play and knowing what you have in front of you and how to rule on the play.

This happened last week. HS varsity game at Angels Stadium. The umpires are from our local HS Association. A couple of issues here: 1. Was there contact? Clearly, if there was no contact, then there is no call to make (perhaps, "that's nothing" if you feel it's warranted). 2. If there was contact, how you would rule on this play in Fed and OBR? http://vimeo.com/89733134 My "spoiler alert" answer below.

Ladies and Gentlemen. We have had very momentous day. The Toronto Blue Jays and The New York Yankees have made a monumental trade. They are going to trade cities. NASA has announced that they plan to land on the Sun at night because it's just too hot in the day. Alaska has been annexed by Russia because Vladimir Putin can see it from his house. Sorry, Rulekeep April Fools!!!

Dana DeMuth in Baltimore vs. Boston..,.. Long sleeve under a short sleeve...... Well, at least he's not a crew chief...... ...... Oh, wait a minute......:blink: Sorry, I had to, before someone else mentioned it :-) Jeff - via Tapatalk

I don't want it. Just trying to correct the info. I once had a 1.0 replaced with a 2.0 both good HSMs....whomever buys this, I would recommend a throat guard. The 1.0 does not cover the throat.

Plate umpire got suckered into a ghost call from a smart coach.

Shoulda seen us during the World Series

Stephen, Pretty good. Except where you misspelled "DH" (which I didn't even realize was possible...). JM

9.02( c) reads, in part: "If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the initial call, disregarding interference or obstruction that may have occurred on the play; failures of runners to tag up based upon the initial call on the field; runners passing other runners or missing bases; etc., all in the discretion of the umpires."

totally agree ......... I actually think this is FASTER than the argument that would insue ....and ..... it's easing relations between managers and umpires (my .02) I agree....and it keeps the umpires off the front page of Deadspin. Good for all concerned.

I once convinced an eight year old that umpires were specially breeded and kept in a storage truck in Washington, D.C, and then woken up and shipped out whenever somebody needed an umpire.

Hell, don't enter the field without your mask on!!

It's U3's only if U1 doesn't go out. U1 is the boss, U3 reads U1. U1's first job is to read the ball/fielders. Why would U1 be going out on a ball hit to right center? Even if it's a trouble ball U3 would have the coverage on that if it's within the "V". At least that's how we run the pro mechanic. Is this April Fool's too? The pro coverage is the same as the NCAA coverage, except the criteria for going out is different. Like I said, in the pro version, U1 would automatically go out since the ball is hit in his coverage area (F8 straight in/back or toward RF line) and only one runner is on. So, U1 has the catch/no catch and U3 has R1 back into first or any plays at second. The only (outfield) catch PU has is a trouble ball with F7 moving towards the line. U1 has all trouble balls from F8 straight in or back to the RF line,. U3 has all other trouble balls and all 'routine' catches in the V. At least that's the college mechanic. Dunno the pro mechanic. FED probably has 2 umpires going out. You did actually read my post, right? I quoted it. Ok I give up. Help me out - what did I miss? Check the time stamp on his post and the date related to that time.

Why's everyone complaining - you get a $10 mask bag for free!

What will it retail for? If it costs 99 bucks to fix, the purchase price has to be astronomical.

Look out ...  Jason on the equipment board w/ some insight!!

I know you don't Rolando, now go tuck in your jacket!!! No

Classic Dana. He wore the same during the Division Series, no? Those mid-sleeve rings are fashionable, after all.

A few principles that might help understand and maybe learn rules differences. 1. Player safety is number one, (i.e FPSR, MC) also so FED does not get sued. 2. Punish the rule breaker to maximum extent of the law DDB for all OBS for example) 3. Simplfy rules so they are easier to enforce (LOL), balk rule 4. Max out player participation (DH, reentry) 6. Tries to help out lower skill level players (DB Appeals) I find that helps me to differenciate rules differences Fed has, since they have different ways of looking at things, Also, Learn/memorize Runner awards table, Live Ball Dead Ball table in rule five, and learn to love the OBS/INF parts of the rulebook until you know them in your sleep.

Love the story. Nice write up. 5 years to the show (as a fill in)…very solid.

If any umpire called "out" and a runner gave up based on that instruction, fix it and place them. Otherwise, whatever played out, played out. Don't give up on the play, do your best. And put your shields up, because the Hurricane Katrina of sh%#storms is about to make landfall.

10.2.3 Situation G. Even though the umpires failed to call the infield fly, both teams are responsible for knowing when it's in effect. Based on this case play, I would score R3 and keep R2 at third. The batter should be called out.

@Rulekeep is gonna be PISSED!

Very true! I emphasize chapter 2.00 with the players I coach and m fellow coaches. I think a lot of people see "definitions" and think the can just skip right by. Here it is... A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner. Rule 2.00 (Force Play) Comment: Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the force situation is removed during the play. Example: Man on first, one out, ball hit sharply to first baseman who touches the bag and batter-runner is out. The force is removed at that moment and runner advancing to second must be tagged. If there had been a runner on third or second, and either of these runners scored before the tag-out at second, the run counts. Had the first baseman thrown to second and the ball then had been returned to first, the play at second was a force out, making two outs, and the return throw to first ahead of the runner would have made three outs. In that case, no run would score. Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpires judgment, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.

OHUMP, Your judgment IS what you saw. JM

Is that like strenuously objecting?

I have one thought to add to what others have posted. Apart from the rightness and wrongness of the calls, there's politics. For some, this is a dirty word: call the game the right way, and if folks don't like it, they can go pound salt. Others are at the other extreme: there is no right or wrong independent of what your bosses/clients want. As usual, the truth is probably in the middle. The tricky part about your situation is, supposing you're 100% right about the rules and their application, how can you work in an association that doesn't make those calls? If you insist on calling them, you might get frozen out of games, get a reputation of being "hard to work with" or a "know-it-all" or a "book umpire." These pejoratives are sometimes applied by people who have more power than knowledge. Of course, some people who claim to know better are full of hot air. Association politics are more difficult to navigate than the rule book (and that's saying something). A thousand different variables come into play. If the powers that be confronted me about a call, I'd do what you did: show them applicable rules and cases. If they still say, "yeah, but we don't call that," I'd just nod and thank them for the information. Then volunteer to help train new umpires for your association, so that they can learn it the right way. Changing the culture of an association takes years or decades. That's been true from MLB on down.

I'm not sure what's more tiresome, .... people asking questions that have been talked to death, even after the 'search first' post, ...or.... @gnhbua93 commenting on it as above

Did you search first . You will have Thunderheads all over you as soon as he sees it. He will be like this .

I bought it two years ago. I don't remember what I paid for it, but it would have been worth it if I paid 3x what I did.

^^^^ This and maybe a simple change in mindset would help... just think "this pitch is a strike until it convinces me otherwise"

Some of us are AR and want our stuff to match whenever possible. If you are reading and following this topic thread you may be afflicted as well. It is an affliction for which there is probably no cure. I like to match my logos whenever possible. You should see my UnderArmour outfits. From Head to toe (or in this case, bottom to top)...shoes, socks, undies, shorts, pants, shirt, jacket, hat. I feel out of sync when I mix in Nike or Majestic or New Era logos. Go ahead, laugh! It is a sickness. @JoHart10 I feel your pain. Hahaha. It really is a crazy sickness.

Team Wendys

Ahhhh, one thing I've been looking forward to! @Thunderheads posting the MLB videos again! Thanks Jeff!

I think a better question is, why not?

That's an awesome price for a 1st. quality product.

We'll tell you the real answer if you become a member

Those first year pitchers in 9/10 games can be very dangerous because they are so oblivious to what's going on around them. I have seen them pitch not just without an umpire behind the plate, but also occasionally without a batter anywhere near the batter's box. In addition to watching out for yourself, you need to watch out for the batter. It's not unusual for some of the younger, less experienced kids to be a bit spacey at the plate, so I try to keep an eye out for when they're not paying attention and the pitcher is getting ready to pitch. At higher levels, I'd let generally let it go since they know enough to ask for time, but some of the 9 year olds are so worried about imitating their favorite MLB player's pre-pitch ritual that they risk getting drilled without even knowing a pitch is coming. With all youth leagues, but especially these players doing kid pitch for the first time, safety needs to be a top concern.

DON'T GET CLOSE TO THE PLATE WITHOUT YOUR MASK ON IN YOUTH BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What makes you think the defense was going to get two outs absent the interference? On a play like this, 2 outs would be a major outlier. I don't see this as "unjust enrichment" to the defense. There are two acts, the batted ball and the interference. Rule 2.00 states, "If a declared Infield Fly is allowed to fall untouched to the ground, and bounces foul before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball." That suggests an intentional act (of omission, if you will) by the fielder that is absent in the situation we are discussing. I simply don't see how the rules apply so clearly to this situation. As I've said, I'm troubled, but I see the sense of what you all argue, but I really don't know what I'd do in this situation. In any event, rather than rehash the same old same old, I will retire from the debate and hope I never have to deal with it. It's simple... you learn the rule and the application and in the event you have it in a game, apply it correctly. OR you can do whatever the heck you want and lose a protest, your choice As an umpire you enforce the rule book, preserving the integrity of the game, and use common sense and fair play when something is not specifically covered. This IS covered so you don't get to pick and choose your own ruling

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out. Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul You're right to point out that enforcement will vary depending on whether it was in fact an infield fly. I interpreted the OP to be saying that it was in fact an IFF, in which case there's no need to wait. Good point on leaving it live if you don't know whether it is fair or foul. Again, in the OP, the fly ball was touched, so we'd kill it immediately. Thats the way I read it too just wanted to make sure we had everything covered

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out. Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Key words, if F3 just gets up and happens to step on the bag while getting up without the purpose of making an appeal the BU should not call the BR out

By getting a Douglas

You made someone extremely happy by buying that mask on eBay

I respectfully disagree with point #1. Rule 5.02 OBR "While the ball is dead no player may be put out, no bases may be run and no runs may be scored" In order for 7.09(h) regarding coaches interference to be applied, interference must be called... Interference, by its definition, results in an out. To be an out, there must be a live ball. I don't think any type of dead ball interference is possible then. It's a four base award on a home run. I agree with Greyhawk. You can declare a runner out because of the interference. And runs can score on a dead ball. A HR is a dead ball once it goes over the fence and the run scores. For the sake of discussion, what differentiates the two: a pat on the butt as the batter-runner rounds third and this prevention of the runner touching? Both involve the 3BC "physically assisting" the runner. And I'd say, just based on what 5.02 says that the runs technically "score" as soon as the ball lands in DBT for a home run... They can then "un-score" upon proper appeal anywhere. 7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—(h) In the judgement of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists him in returning to or leaving third base or first base. the base coach can "touch" the runner, physical assistance must be an intentional act by the base coach to prevent a runner from advancing, or aiding the runner in advancing. Therefore, the base coach could even have physical contact with the runner that forces the runner to return and it not be physical assistance. A base coach could have his hands up to stop the runner, and the runner could run into those hands extending out to stop the runner and it not be physical assistance if in YOUR judgement it wasn't an intentional act to physically assist the runner in any way. Understood. I only used that to relate the at-topic discussion with a common rule myth. A better comparison would be to my most recent. Coach physically pushes his runner toward home, or even picks him up and carries him to home... I don't see a difference other than the percieved impact on the defense. yeah sorry was replying when you posted that. any type of intentional physical assistance, whether play is alive or dead, needs to be called. If the ball is dead you would just point at the infraction and say "that's physical assistance, he's out" In the case of the coach carrying his runner home... if it is a dead ball award you may have a substitute runner finish the award for an injured player who cannot run the bases so that situation really shouldn't happen

I respectfully disagree with point #1. Rule 5.02 OBR "While the ball is dead no player may be put out, no bases may be run and no runs may be scored" In order for 7.09(h) regarding coaches interference to be applied, interference must be called... Interference, by its definition, results in an out. To be an out, there must be a live ball. I don't think any type of dead ball interference is possible then. It's a four base award on a home run. I agree with Greyhawk. You can declare a runner out because of the interference. And runs can score on a dead ball. A HR is a dead ball once it goes over the fence and the run scores. For the sake of discussion, what differentiates the two: a pat on the butt as the batter-runner rounds third and this prevention of the runner touching? Both involve the 3BC "physically assisting" the runner. And I'd say, just based on what 5.02 says that the runs technically "score" as soon as the ball lands in DBT for a home run... They can then "un-score" upon proper appeal anywhere. 7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—(h) In the judgement of the umpire, the base coach at third base, or first base, by touching or holding the runner, physically assists him in returning to or leaving third base or first base. the base coach can "touch" the runner, physical assistance must be an intentional act by the base coach to prevent a runner from advancing, or aiding the runner in advancing. Therefore, the base coach could even have physical contact with the runner that forces the runner to return and it not be physical assistance. A base coach could have his hands up to stop the runner, and the runner could run into those hands extending out to stop the runner and it not be physical assistance if in YOUR judgement it wasn't an intentional act to physically assist the runner in any way.