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OK, Here goes.... I've been doing this a while..16 years. 14 high school varsity, 7 Juco, D3. Without sounding overly cocky, I think I'm a damn good umpire. I've seen and heard all the horror stories about poor sportsmanship, confrontational parents, etc. Sure, I've experienced it, but it's been on rare occasions, and the overwhelming amount of the times, I've had respectful coaches, players, and to a lesser extent parents. Fast forward to this year. I thought it was me. I was starting to think my zone was inconsistent. Starting to think my judgement might be off. I know I'm getting slower. Maybe it's affecting my game. I've been talking with some trusted colleagues, and it seems it's not me. The umpire hate is reaching new levels. The overall tone of the games, attitudes, it's filled with anger. Dirty looks from hitters from every close strike, looks of astonishment from fielders on safe calls that aren't even that close. Batter runners stomping up and down when they're put out at first by a full step. Fielder yelling a runner is off the bag when I'm right there looking at a hand on the top of the bag, coaches looking for help on routine plays, (Not asking ..Demanding "You GOTTA GET HELP). Grief on check swings, no matter if I call a strike as PU, or go for help...As BU, whatever I call on an appeal, I'm gonna hear crap from the other side. I had to give a college coach an official ball/Strike warning in the 8th inning with his team leading 22-1. Another one a few days ago after his starter walked 7 in 2+ innings...Most were pitches his catcher couldn't even catch. Besides the ball/strike stuff, these aren't issues or actions that require warnings/ejections. Just ornery attitudes... No one's happy with anything. Yesterday, as we're leaving the field of a home team run rule win, a group of passive- aggressive Dad's start in as we pass loud enough to be sure we're hearing them "Every call goes against us, they all suck this year. They got it out for us. Where do they find these guys? They won by 12, yet they still found the need to make sure we heard them talking about how much we suck and that foul ball my partner called against their team in the second inning. ... Last week we're leaving a college field and after we pass a group of ignorant morons who were on us from the start we hear "Better luck next time, blue." It's taking a lot of strength to ignore. I thought it was me until yesterday. I got calls from two colleagues in the span of a few hours lamenting the sme issues, and questioning if they want to do this anymore....It's not been fun this year" is what I'm hearing over and over. Is it a bad stretch? Are attitudes worse? Am I worse? ....I'm rained out today. and you know what? Part of me is thinking "Thank God". I don't like feeling that. I want this to be enjoyable. It has been for 16 years, with the occasional misbehaviour here and there. This year it's rampant. The table has completely turned. The polite, no issue games have become the outliers. I'm going to put a big part of the blame on social media and the amount of umpire hate being spewed. From national media outlets, to Joe fan's ignorant hatred...It's trickle down to where players, coaches and parents all bring their keyboard warrior mentality to the field. Or.. Is this the way it is across the country, and somehow I've avoided it for the most part for 16 years?.7 points
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Thanks to all the replies. It all helps. I'm sure it's a bad stretch that will improve. (Doesn't mean I can see the end of the college road not fay ahead. Special thanks to those who have said I've made a difference in their umpiring career. That's the best compliment I can ever receive. ❤️6 points
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Vanity, vanity... all is vanity. What difference does it really make? If the association you're auditioning for is a solely collegiate association (or, alternatively, led by collegiate umpires), I can venture an experienced guess why they perseverate on sartorial details like this. Insidiously, it's not someone who's 80 years old; oh no no, instead, it's someone younger... think mid-40s / 50s... What's absolutely maddening, is working for one particular association/assigner, who insists that we are to "look like the Big League guys", yet another association – often at the same or similar level of competition – insists, nay mandates, that we are not "Big League guys" and we will never wear that style of uniform (ie. shirts, shirt colors (ahem, Wisconsin just a few years ago), jackets, pants, etc.). Like that assigner / association head has a chip on his shoulder, or a grudge against the Big Leagues because he... oh... ohhhhhh... I get it. 😉 Again, if you provide the uniforms, then you have all the control and justification of directing what we wear. If ya don't... If you're too freakin' cheap or that much of a control freak over your little fiefdom...5 points
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Like it or not, those platforms are the way people are communicating, connecting and “learning” and that’s not going to change. If you want a new generation of umpires that are educated in the field, I’d suggest some of the excellent knowledge, experience, and talent on these forums be apart of that future and join in the conversations on those platforms. Heck, if @MadMax were smart, he’d start a TikTok channel. He’s got the knowledge, the personality, and the looks to be a REAL benefit to the profession as an “influencer”. A good chunk of the information being shared by “umpires” on the gram or tt is just crap and, outside of myself, its rare to see anyone respond with actual rule book quotes. There is almost zero information on gear. Zero information on positioning. Heck, half of the umpires on those platforms don’t even use obstruction/interference correctly. I try to steer some of the young ones here but they don’t understand forums, to them they are all boomer Reddit trash. Believe it or not, umpires are generally well liked on those platforms (more tt than gram), coaches and parents do make very positive and supportive videos and comments about us, far more than you’d imagine.4 points
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said Gen-Z umpire here, You are correct that a light comes on when they are recording; however, some products/businesses block/drill through the light, disabling it. The same goes for the Oakley Meta AI glasses.4 points
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I have had worked several games with @Richvee this year and probably close to a hundred with him in total. He and I are good friends and I enjoy working with him, poking fun at each other, and sometimes getting dinner after games. He and I have had the "Is this worth it?" conversation this year and I am beginning to think there is merit in considering hanging 'em up, especially for those 9-10 hour DH days for JUCO. Rich is a very good umpire who is technically sound and has good judgment on the field (I did say we were friends, so off the field judgment may be suspect). I think I do a pretty good job on the field as well and I am seeing a lot more of the stink eye, the histrionics from pitchers, and catchers shrugging when the dugout asks about location. I also officiate volleyball and I have issued more yellow cards this year than in several seasons combined. Perhaps the solution lies with the tools at our disposal that maybe we need to use more often. Rich and I were working a bad JUCO DH when there was an unnecessarily hard tag at 3B from a team that had been getting its ass handed to them all day and of course the runner had to come up shoving F5. I got in both of their faces and used language I probably shouldn't have but my aggressiveness immediately got their attention and the situation was diffused. I also had to issue my first official ball/strike warning this year to a team losing by 15 runs in the third inning. Truth told, I kind of relish doing those things sometimes. Like @SH0102 just mentioned and @BigUmpire used to say frequently, shooting one monkey usually gets the other to fall in line. Maybe that approach will work. Maybe not, but at least you may have the chance to work on your ejection mechanics. And fans aren't worth anything except the check they write for teams to pay our game fees. I treat them like red-headed step children (sorry gingers). Keep at it Rich. You enjoy this too much to let the rats take it away from you.4 points
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Not sure if others are seeing this, but “by me” there’s a lot of turnover of high school coaches and you’re getting younger and younger head coaches who don’t have relationships with umpires and/or “don’t know how to act.” The days of the 20-30 year head coach by us are really over. I think that feeds into a lot of the chirping, complaining, and problems.4 points
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Congrats on the regionals. Have fun!! D3 playoff implication regular season DH Saturday, Juco finishing off the season Sunday, and a Juco playoff next Saturday. That finishes off college for the year. I'm also struggling with what the future holds for me. I'm getting slower, aching more. I'm not sure the travel and grind of college ball is worth it much longer. Weekend Dh's mean out at 9AM the latest, probably 1-2 hour drive, home around 7-8 PM. It's wearing me out. But the ball and money is good. It's the northeast, and especially this year, the weather sucks.(we're still in the 50's..low 40's at night) Being out there in 25-30 weather makes me question my sanity. The friendships and comradery of college ball is second to none. Weighing the pros and cons....I need to figure it out.4 points
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This is my biggest gripe with the original version of the DaviShins. While I don't have a simple solution, it is a big factor in the updated design we're working on.4 points
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There's a rule in the NFHS rulebook I will never enforce. Sure, I will acknowledge it, and recite it if pressed, but you'll never see me "enforce" it. Never. It is the most useless and unnecessary rule in the book. There are several adjacent to it that are real eye-rollers, and when you're an experienced umpire – at any level – you can summarize them as, "Thanks for the reminder, Overlord Obvious". But this one – this particular one – rule is the best embodiment of pettiness, pedantry, and the frankly arcane thinking that members of the NFHS rules committee employed in the past, and its continuance in the book (perpetuity?) just shows me that the current rules committee isn't quite "with the times" yet. Here goes... <ahem>... Rule 10, Section 1, Article 9 – Umpires shall wear gray slacks, and navy pullover shirt or state association-adopted shirt. Are you purchasing the uniform items for me, or providing them to me? No? Until that day comes...4 points
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Anyone see that shot to Scott Kennedy this weekend? I wonder if a skullcap would have prevented the knockout? I know I’m sold on wearing it. After four years, I won’t go without it.3 points
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This what happened to me. I just got tired of the BS over stupid meaningless SH*# during a game. My tolerance level just isn't there. I don't know if it's getting older or what. But as I slink into retirement, I just don't want the aggravation. Stepping back from umpiring a little bit has helped. I no longer do the 9 hour adult baseball DH ordeals. I don't instruct at clinics (my first year in about 20 years), I don't go to endless useless meetings, I'm just not involved at any other aspect but just doing the occasional game. Honestly, I did a game last week, and even though I had an assistant coach bitch about something stupid, It was pretty darn ejoyable. I just want to peacefully and gracefully exit from the game before I'm one of "those guys" that either can't move or doesn't want to listen. It's just a hobby for me, and it needs to be fun. When it ceases to be fun, that's when I'm done. It's getting close, but cutting back has definitely helped. As I've always said, everyone has a shelf life. I just don't want to be past my expiration date and not know it.3 points
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The 20-seconds between pitches... not between pitchers. The batter and pitcher have the same time limit... because of that it is unenforceable.3 points
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Off topic: No you need to scream "FOUL" 😃 I no longer try to break ex-players become umpires habit of "foulball".3 points
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Rich, All good stuff shared here, and glad to see someone mentioned you’ve made a difference for them; that’s the highest compliment. I agree no single act mentioned in the quoted post is warning worthy but persistent actions in a game are. Kinda like how the first snarky comment to the other team doesn’t get a bench warning (unless it’s real bad). But if it keeps going, here it comes, even though that single comment isn’t awful. The point is to prevent the other team from reacting and now it goes back and forth except now you’re the other team in your situation. “Hey bill, none of your guys have said anything horrible, but the constant questioning of every pitch and call is making it hard to stay focused on the game, can you help me out here and tamper it?” Now, if it happens again, you give the warning , then again, eject. If they’re dumb enough to get to the eject after a kind “help me out here” and official warning, oh well.3 points
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I'd just like to say that as a 3rd year, 57 year old umpire with aspirations to be better, you have been a helpful and inspiring voice on this forum for me since I started and I'm sure thats been true for others. Sounds like you are in a tough stretch and I hope it gets better. But you should know that what you do and share has a really meangingful impact. Thanks.3 points
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Do what I do - don't look at the players! You won't see the scowls and you'll be much happier.3 points
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3 points
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Early in the year, I was hearing quite a bit of umpire grumbling for being grumbled, but it seems to have dropped off. That or I'm just not hearing it as much. I've been lucky this HS season . . . probably because I've been much more selective on what I will do. I have cut out 2 of 4 assignors, and that eliminated a significant percentage of the local schools for me. Many of them were places I wasn't being sent anyway. I'm not sad to see any of those go. OK, maybe a couple of schools. I really cut my schedule back this year. I have not done more than 3 nights in a week, and that 3 night week only happened the week I was on Spring Break. I am saying NO daily, even as I watch 5-10 e-mails a day begging for umpires. In recent years, I have been at the point you are at, @Richvee, and right about this time in the season. I don't know what the future holds for me, but I'm not hating it at the moment because I have taken steps not to. Physically, I am questioning myself. I'm 51, so I know I am younger than most umpires, and I still move better than them. However, I don't want to be them. I don't want to be 70 and standing in one spot "because we need umpires." If I can't give it my best, I don't want to be a detriment. I know I need to lose some weight, but I am not any heavier than the last few years. That said, I am not moving like I used to and I am sore far more often. I think I am not going to work as much summer ball, and may work on losing some weight to see if that changes things. Just some theories of a rambling old man: As for the general attitudes around the game . . . Are we at the point that the generations of entitled travel ball kids are reaching JUCO? I'd think we would be well past that, but we know it got worse and worse each year (just like my freshmen classes get lower and lower when they come in each year). Has it just aged up? Add to that many JUCO teams are glorified HS teams, and mommy and daddy still come to the games. Social media? Sure, that's part of it. I would say the general state of the world is going to make this a bad summer for baseball umpires. Not just the ABS system in MLB, but just the depressing state of the country and world, a crumbling economy, and gas that has jumped $1 here in the last few days. People look for somewhere to take it out, and isn't that what their check and gate fee entitles them to do?3 points
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Rich, I don’t know you but I know what organization you work for. the comment “nothing warrants an ejection” is not accurate. USC warnings are team warnings, use them, and use them early. guys stomping, throwing arms up, saying things are demonstrative actions and are USC. Shut it down, give that official warning the ncaa loves, and then eject someone if they don’t stop. also, If you feel you’re almost done who cares? I won’t say where but I had a series this year, first 2 games were church (blowouts), third game was competitive and got very chippy. We issued warnings to both teams, half inning later we had an ejection. Rest of game 3 and game 4 were church. Shoot the first monkey, the rest of the barrel falls in line. I know those tests and answers make it seem like we can’t warn and eject much, but our job is to control the game. i am not saying go be a red-a$$, but if the grind is so bad you’re miserable, you’re at the warn and eject if it continues stage. fans, nothing can do there; try to find humor in their ridiculousness best wishes for last couple weeks3 points
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Hope they all go well! Heading into JUCO Regionals this weekend. U1 tomorrow, then PU for Regional final Sunday and U3 for the IF game.3 points
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@wolfe_man on your F3’s remove the Velcro padding and move it up just a bit higher…. Problem solved.3 points
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3 points
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Umpiring has definitely lost some of its luster at least at the high school levels, over the past 15-20 years IMO. Part of it is the abuse/comments and part of it is the game fees not making it worth a lot of people's time.3 points
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Maannnn, I got something raw and knawling at me but it is too soon to spill. But, let's just say I left the field with someone hollering 'Hey Blue! You still suck!" for all to hear including the herd of cows across the valley. I hear you brother.3 points
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Fit for me (for the alternatives) is: Easton EvoShield Rawlings If i recall correctly EvoShield had the most vents but I think its ugly. All-Star is superior in every way besides the shape compared to all of them though.3 points
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I was only referring to a Clear Rx pair where you may actually have an issue if the kid actually needs them to see. Oakley makes a variety of Meta glasses as well. https://www.oakley.com/en-us/product/W0OW8001?variant=888392690418&cid=PM-FGS_000000-5.US-Oakley-EN-NA-NA-PmaxFullCatalog-NA-Prs-NA-Ecom-NA&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19671809437&gbraid=0AAAAACyJeEZU9YIEIyJeQz7Q5jYQL1_te&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2MbPBhCSARIsAP3jP9xC5Q_FOTM7L5NXckqDr_pk5EW5iaMl8FKHIqO0txf2wALk9fAQWM4aAp8XEALw_wcB3 points
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This bears repeating...and this happened to my best friend's daughter playing softball. She started playing at 6 and by 10 they were full-time on travel softball for the next 8 years. When she started playing HS softball, they enrolled her in a Softball Academy where she would go 2 or 3 times per week after school and get private instruction as a catcher and hitting in the cage. She and her parents thought she was on a college scholarship track. Sadly, it just didn't happen. She put everything in to it, the family put everything into it and it just didn't happen. She was very good; she was not elite. Senior year when reality set in, it was a very dark time for the family. She also happened to be an excellent academic student so, she got accepted to several excellent schools but, the bitterness she and her parents still feel about even 3 years later is still very hard to watch as an outsider. I have spent far too many nights at the bar consoling my buddy in between beers, "She wanted it so bad. We did everything we felt we needed to do for her and she did everything she could for herself. What was it all for? We crisscrossed across several states FOR YEARS! The hotels, the gas, the meals, the fees...all the missed time that we could have done other things with her childhood...she made a lot of great friends and has great memories of the places she went and her teammates and coaches...there are no guarantees...we knew this. If they told me when she was 6 and we started the whole deal she wasn't going to get a college offer, I'm not sure we still would have done it..." And I just don't know what to say to all of that without sounding like I'm being dismissive or patronizing...internally, I will always be glad that my kids never cared for sports beyond rec level. ~Dawg3 points
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It's so we can look like the Kinney shoe salesmen with our 1970's inspired slacks! Add a tucked in jacket, ohh so stylish! (Not bagging on anyone, I just think our uniforms are waaaaay outdated. I do like a nice crease though.)3 points
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Imagine how ABS could help a knuckleballer if ABS actually called a whole zone and not a 2D plane.2 points
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2 points
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I take it you haven't see @Richvee's thread. 😁 Seriously, great points. Biggest thing for me was grokking CICO (calories in, calories out) and sleep. Working out more at the cost of sleep or that there is a "free lunch" in no carb diet are traps. I'm down 30+ lbs and another 15 would be good. About time to refocus on that.2 points
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Unfortunately, this is where we are. When this happens, the time for diplomacy is long past. On the coach demanding You GOTTA GET HELP your first response, in a calm voice is, "Coach, talk to me like that again and you will be ejected." If you get into a situation like you described, get both coaches together and tell them to get their teams and themselves un der control. And tell them if they can't do it, you'll do it for them. Most of the time situations can be handled with a little diplomacy. This is not one of them.2 points
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Tighter pants. I had this issue when I wore them very early this season. Then, my 15 year old wanted to start dabbling in the umpire world (the highest level of giddyness excitement that you can imagine, that was me) So, I went back to my Force 3's, and gave him the DaviShins. Well, he isn't going to work a 'ton' of games since he's also playing High School, so I just wanted one pair of combo pants. His combo pants are obviously a little tigher/form fitting than my Plate pants. He hasn't had this issue at all, one time.2 points
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I love my Davis Shins, with the exception of this issue. It's now second nature to pull my pants out when they get clamped. @wolfe_man based on your comments, I'm guessing you don't have firsthand experience specifically with the Davis design? The DavisShins are essentially a rigid design from top to bottom. Yes, there is a separate "knee cap" but it barely hinges at the joint. The only straps are behind your calf; nothing above the bend of the knee. When you squat, the shin guard (down the entire height) is fighting to be vertical (or on plane with your shin bone.) This pulls the knee cover away from your quad as you squat; only the tension in your pantleg resists the rigid knee cap from standing straight up. The gap created between the guard and the front of your thigh closes up when you stand from your stance, thus creating the "chomp" effect that gathers the pant material that was spanning the gap. Any methods that might work on standard designed guards are pretty futile on the DavisShins. Duct tape? Yes, if you can call balls and strikes with your knees locked completely straight!! 😆2 points
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Nah Rich, it's you Seriously, sorry you've had a rough year. I can't say I've seen a difference between this year and previous years, but I did have an ejection of an assistant coach and I haven't had one for a while. I suspect most of the issues you've had have been in HS and not college? I know you mentioned some idiotic fans at a college game, but this is more the exception I hope? Hang in there and just make sure you and your brothers have each others' backs. They're the only ones that matter.2 points
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I have the same issue with my F3's. For some reason, only the left leg grabs my pants like that - but I know the feeling. I've tried to grab my pants and pull up as I stand in one, smooth motion so they won't grab as easily, but it doesn't always work for me. The fix is to have a seamstress add about 4-5" of silk inside your plate pants at the knee. Then, your shins won't grab your pants, they'll slide right on by.2 points
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For the record, thanks for sharing. I think there are far more of us out there feeling this way, but too many won't speak up for fear of others poking fun. First off, man, I'm so sorry. I fully understand and sympathize with what you're experiencing. So far, the kids have been mostly okay - but I've been doing mostly 9th/JV until I was sure I could handle the speed of Varsity without issue. While this year hasn't been as bad as the last one I worked yet, I do feel like fan and coach behavior especially is getting worse. Typically, the higher the level, the less issues I have with players and fans, but not always true with the coaches. They can be jerks just trying to throw you off your game for the fun of it or get in your head so you'll call something their way the next time. But I know you're familiar with all that. I believe that you are correct in laying the blame at the feet of social media. There is definitely an anti-umpire bias out there, I've even seen pages called "umpire hate" groups that supposedly post where they believe an umpire has missed a call. You will notice there's never any substance to their post, just overall hate towards the profession. I'm sorry again though. When these start piling up over a few games, it does get you to start asking "is this worth continuing". When I'm hurting and doing my best just to get back on the field and giving it everything I've got and then parents are jerks, it does take a lot of internal calming to keep yourself from letting them know all you've done to get there and call a game so their kids could play... and them complain. Hang in there if you can. Whatever your decision is, I will support you as a friend and brother.2 points
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Whoa whoa whooooaaaaaa... Are those Bike® brand coach's shorts? Or, are they bike shorts... as in, spandex-y, with a chamois for... chafing? #WordsMatter And Fruit-of-the-Loom never had it so good, either. #BarteringWithGuido2 points
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All of the things you mentioned are things that people typically pursue as adults. I don't know too many 10 year olds devoting ALL of their free time to prepare for getting into law school, passing the bar, or preparing for medical or rocket science the way these kids spend all of their free time playing sports...sure, failure is a big part of life and learning how to pivot and go to plan B...or C or D even is a life skill everyone needs to learn. Generally, life doesn't give us handouts. It's not enough to want anything or even pursue it. You must either have the inherent skill or talent or be able to develop it. Is my buddy's daughter's life over? No, of course not. She's going to be fine and go on to have a great life with lots of fulfillment and success apart from whatever she wanted for herself in softball. When one of our passions dies, we have to make time and space for that to die and grieve a bit over it and she's nearing the end of that process as she comes to be passionate about other things now as an adult. These things take time. I'm a Gen X'r. When I was growing up in the suburbs of the 70's and 80's, yes we had travel sports. And you had to be INVITED to tryout for the team and you had to make the team. This concept of "My kid plays travel sports..." as a status symbol for adults around the water cooler at work, etc. simply did not exist when I was growing up. Nowadays, if your parents can afford for their children to play travel sports, there is someone who would be happy to take their money. There is also a parenting trend that has been in place since the turn of the century that my wife and I do not subscribe to. And that's this business of figuring out the ONE thing their kid is good at...and then SPENDING every free moment doing just that one thing! No! You're doing it wrong! Childhood is about healthy exploration. When my generation was growing up, we did ALL KINDS OF ACTIVITIES...we played multiple sports and only those sports at certain times of the year. And this was in addition to all of the other non-sports activities we did. Kids need time to be kids and explore the world beyond the one thing they are good at. ~Dawg2 points
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The Kuta's interior is our cross-linked foam (Covalta). The DX Mk2 is largely EVA with Covalta in higher risk areas like the chest and collarbone regions. There will be a different limited run available next year but this years run is sold out.2 points
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Update: “Some umpires pointed out that since we have interference, one of the offensive players involved in the play must be out because of the interference. The batter struck out on the pitch, so he’s already out before the interference happens. R1 is the only other option for an out because of the interference. The umpires who contacted me think this answer is the better option. The batter is out because he struck out, but he interfered with a potential play on R1 at 2nd base. R1 is also out. I agree with their thinking. That’s the intent of our weekly quizzes … Get all of us (including me) thinking about common (and not-so-common) plays and their correct rulings.”2 points
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2 points
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Honestly, the only way I knew they may be recording devices is because of social media posts he made using the glasses (non-baseball). In my games since, I've asked glasses-wearing players that are near me whether their glasses are able to record. No one else has admitted to having them. In my experience, the thicker the frame, the higher likelihood of the glasses being capable of recording. As Dawg says, there's no exception for when it's not recording or if the light isn't on. It's simply not allowed on the field. In the OP, that was actually the player's defense. "They're not recording. There's a light that comes on." I told him it doesn't matter; by rule they're not allowed. He accepted that and the glasses did not make another appearance during the game.2 points
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By the way, the light that indicates the glasses are recording? Yeah...that can be deactivated so that recordings can be made without the light being on. There is no provision that if the light is off, the glasses can be worn on the field. It's an electronic device and by rule it's not permitted to be on the field. ~Dawg2 points
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I do think interference should have been called. F2 stepped right on the bat, and even if it hindered him for a brief moment, it still hindered him. Think of some obstruction calls that are made in MLB where the runner is barely hindered and those calls are still made. However, I do not think the protest will stand unless the crew's explanation was that the batter-runner didn't do it intentionally or something else that showed the rule was misapplied.2 points
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When’s / Where’s your next game? I’ll bring my (infamous) clipboard! And I promise to say much, much more than, “Guhr, your timing was good.”2 points
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We need to remove the term 'hybrid' from ours and coaches' lexicon. There is no such thing as a 'hybrid.' It is either a pivot foot parallel to the rubber for a set position, or it is not. And, the pitcher is only allowed to do certain movements from either position (college and pro's with the exception of 'declaring' what movement they will use ).2 points
