johnnyg08 Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 (edited) How many of you umpire in states that use a double first base? For this...I think I can get advice from baseball & softball umpires at all levels. Next year, we're moving to a double first base for our baseball games and we also have situations where we have umpires working solo. Let's not turn this into a debate about whether or not you or anyone should be working alone. That's not why I'm posting this. In states that have the double first base what are the current challenges and what challenges will exist for umpires who work solo and now have to umpire plays that use a double first base in addition to everything else on the field. Edited March 22 by johnnyg08 New photo to not distract from the intent of the thread. Quote
noumpere Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 Hmmm .. that top picture seems to have the base improperly positioned. The foul line should be under the white base, not the green base. Quote
johnnyg08 Posted March 22 Author Report Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, noumpere said: Hmmm .. that top picture seems to have the base improperly positioned. The foul line should be under the white base, not the green base. New photo to not distract from the intent of the thread. 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 Don’t do it. Too late. Cannot leave that without the obligatory chastisement for accepting that as a norm. Apologies … Of the 50 states, only 13 are NOT using it this year (according to the clinic I went to). Illinois is one who is NOT using it yet. In fact, we were still ordered to NOT ALLOW a game to be played with it. That said, I’ll be curious to see what unique challenges people encounter. No matter what they are, I advise “Coach, let me go to my partner for help. Oh. Oopsie. Good thing I made ten extra dollars.” Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 30 minutes ago, noumpere said: Hmmm .. that top picture seems to have the base improperly positioned. The foul line should be under the white base, not the green base. Compared to some of the chalk lines we see, that’s pretty close. 🤣 1 1 Quote
johnnyg08 Posted March 22 Author Report Posted March 22 14 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said: Don’t do it. Too late. Cannot leave that without the obligatory chastisement for accepting that as a norm. Apologies … Of the 50 states, only 13 are NOT using it this year (according to the clinic I went to). Illinois is one who is NOT using it yet. In fact, we were still ordered to NOT ALLOW a game to be played with it. That said, I’ll be curious to see what unique challenges people encounter. No matter what they are, I advise “Coach, let me go to my partner for help. Oh. Oopsie. Good thing I made ten extra dollars.” I understand and I don't disagree. While I'd love to be king for a day and declare that we'll no longer work alone. I'm not the king and it will be what it will be. So...of the states that use it maybe are currently using it (where seasons have started) what challenges are you seeing or hearing about when umpires are working alone? Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 But we are kings. We can declare we’ll not work alone. It’s a choice. Don’t paint it otherwise. I am not trying to derail your thread, but I will never not speak up on this issue. What we allow, we condone. 1 Quote
noumpere Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 Back when I umpired alone and with a double first base— the base and the rules themselves caused some confusion, but it wasn’t any different one umpire or two. 1 Quote
johnnyg08 Posted March 22 Author Report Posted March 22 9 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said: But we are kings. We can declare we’ll not work alone. It’s a choice. Don’t paint it otherwise. I am not trying to derail your thread, but I will never not speak up on this issue. What we allow, we condone. Of course. We have right of refusal on any assignment and I promise you, I'm far from a sympathizer. 1 Quote
johnnyg08 Posted March 22 Author Report Posted March 22 24 minutes ago, noumpere said: Back when I umpired alone and with a double first base— the base and the rules themselves caused some confusion, but it wasn’t any different one umpire or two. I appreciate this and there might not be anything noteworthy from all the other compromising situations we're put in when working alone...but I also don't want to miss anything big either. Quote
BigBlue4u Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 4 hours ago, johnnyg08 said: How many of you umpire in states that use a double first base? For this...I think I can get advice from baseball & softball umpires at all levels. You want some advice? Here it is: Just go out there and do the best you can. 2 Quote
johnnyg08 Posted March 22 Author Report Posted March 22 3 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said: You want some advice? Here it is: Just go out there and do the best you can. I'll put that on the slide for training. "Just go do the best you can" 1 Quote
grayhawk Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 I think the key thing is to NOT get too wrapped up in the double base. Sure, when plays aren't close, you can give some extra attention to which base the runner touches. But on whackers, focus only on if the batter-runner beats the throw or the throw beats the batter-runner. Nothing worse than losing focus realizing that, yes, the batter-runner touched the colored base, but having no idea on if he beat the play or not. 2 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 16 minutes ago, grayhawk said: I think the key thing is to NOT get too wrapped up in the double base. If only the litany of organizations would listen to this advice. It should be one of the easiest things to implement, but, alas . . . 1 Quote
johnnyg08 Posted March 22 Author Report Posted March 22 24 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said: If only the litany of organizations would listen to this advice. It should be one of the easiest things to implement, but, alas . . . Oh...no doubt...we do a great job of overcomplicating things. 1 Quote
MadMax Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 20 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: we were still ordered to NOT ALLOW a game to be played with it. Why would that be?? 🤔 Hmm… could it be the unmitigated chaos of synchronizing, what, 138 different umpire associations (in one state)?!?? I’m starting to sense that poly-garchy and anarchy are actually synonyms… in Illinois. 16 hours ago, grayhawk said: I think the key thing is to NOT get too wrapped up in the double base. The initial play at 1B ain’t the burr in the saddle. The burr(s) become evident on 2… “actions”… at 1B, and how umpires get hung up on literal application vs. “spirit of the rule” application. Base hit to the outfield. Because of the emphasis placed on the BR touching orange vs fielder touching white, umpires NttR (new to the rule) fixate and perseverate on the BR touching orange every time for “first time by”. The perseverate on the imperative – “must” – and don’t infuse the qualifier – on the initial (first) play at 1B. We (the experienced guys) know that without a play at 1B, the BR can touch either base. But because of the overemphasis placed on the imperative (and the conjoined penalty) in materials and training, umpires NttR start calling BRs Out on doubles, or overthrows. Once returning to 1B after overrunning it, the BR touches / steps / stands on orange (first), then white. This akin to there being no orange base whatsoever, and BR returning while talking to his 1BC and taking off his protective gear. BR is allowed to return directly to “1B”, with ranging interpretation on the time interval (urgency). Now, we have F3’s (coached to) hold(ing) the ball, and tagging BR as he returns to the (double) base, forcing the umpire into a judgement. I am not contesting or complaining about the rule, I’m bemoaning how it is taught and how to implement it. Or, in the Fed’s case – the absence of comprehensive training and support materials. And sorry-not-sorry, a POE Newsletter – on its own – is a pathetic piece of material. I swear, there’s (still) more enforcement and adherence to the (stoooooooopid!) navy blue shirt rule, than upon a paradigm-shifting rule such as the double first base. 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 23 Report Posted March 23 12 hours ago, MadMax said: Why would that be?? 🤔 Hmm… could it be the unmitigated chaos of synchronizing, what, 138 different umpire associations (in one state)?!?? I’m starting to sense that poly-garchy and anarchy are actually synonyms… in Illinois. . . . I am not contesting or complaining about the rule, I’m bemoaning how it is taught and how to implement it. Or, in the Fed’s case – the absence of comprehensive training and support materials. And sorry-not-sorry, a POE Newsletter – on its own – is a pathetic piece of material. I swear, there’s (still) more enforcement and adherence to the (stoooooooopid!) navy blue shirt rule, than upon a paradigm-shifting rule such as the double first base. By my count, 32 of the 79 associations recognized and blessed by TPTB dabble in baseball. (Ironically, the IHSA website is down at the moment, so I am working some back-room numbers on that.) Polyarchy (polygarchy?) and anarchy in Illinois -- so much closer to the truth than you realize. It's cultural though, not just high school sports. We have the highest number of governmental units out of all 50 states, and it isn't even close. We have around 7,000 governmental units (as high as 9,000 in one finding); Texas has around 5,000 - 5,500. As for why we would NOT allow the game to be played . . . I'll just stare at you stupidly until you go away. I did hear a rumor that navy may finally be going away (in 2 years) because "the guys in Chicago are refusing to wear it." 🙄 Everything around here has to be a damned pissing match or blame game; nobody can just man up and say either "I've made a decision: that's a dumb idea, and we aren't doing it" OR "I was wrong, let's not do that." Don't worry, Max. NFHS Publications will put out the "NFHS Guide to Safety Bases" pamphlet for us to buy for $10 next year. 1 2 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 24 Report Posted March 24 How did I miss this obvious retort? "Coach, you have more bags at first base than you have umpires. I can't watch all of them!" 1 2 Quote
dumbdumb Posted March 24 Report Posted March 24 On 3/22/2026 at 4:51 PM, johnnyg08 said: I'll put that on the slide for training. "Just go do the best you can" oh hell @johnnyg08, just call 1-800-Bill-Klem. he did 1905 all by himself, except for a few double headers, but he did double headers by himself to. just listen to the coaches who have no vested interest in the call going their way. they just want the call to be correct, for or agin them. what, no help umpire for check swings (and many HP umpires passing the buck), after all that complaining we spew about it being right or wrong on others replay check swing calls, as umpires ourselves. all those area code calls on that guy sliding for the back of second base, all those trap calls in the outfield with no help. ball beats the runner and decent tag is laid down equals an out. oh my goodness, such unprofessionalism. no, he pulled his foot, go check, pull the foot help umpire now. oh yes, and that first batter with the ball hooking down the 1st base line fair or foul and running full speed to 2nd anyway, and how you going to call that fair or foul and get to 2nd at the same time as the play. and on and on. lions and tigers and bears, oh my. remember, coaches are honest and your partner and help now, and they have better area code judgment than you do anyway, just do what they say or see, they will tell you. and at least you don't have the coaches like McGraw ready to woop your arsch all day long like Klem did. Quote
johnnyg08 Posted March 24 Author Report Posted March 24 12 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: I did hear a rumor that navy may finally be going away (in 2 years) because "the guys in Chicago are refusing to wear it." 🙄 Everything around here has to be a damned pissing match or blame game; nobody can just man up and say either "I've made a decision: that's a dumb idea, and we aren't doing it" OR "I was wrong, let's not do that." Yep, the collaborative group think can be really detrimental to getting anything done. 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 25 Report Posted March 25 Great news, though! IHSA Softball is finally blessing the navy shirt . . . and . . . wait for it . . . Navy pants! They did not specify that umpires should not wear the navy shirt WITH navy pants. 1 Quote
BLWizzRanger Posted March 25 Report Posted March 25 11 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: Great news, though! IHSA Softball is finally blessing the navy shirt . . . and . . . wait for it . . . Navy pants! They did not specify that umpires should not wear the navy shirt WITH navy pants. What color for the ball bags? Would you wear a red shirt with the navy pants? 2 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 25 Report Posted March 25 Crap. Now I'm going to need red ball bags. I'm surprised USSSA hasn't gone that route. Wait . . . I could win a complete umpire wardrobe here: Quote
The Man in Blue Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 . . . and I have no idea what to make of this search result . . . 1 1 Quote
Mad Mike Posted March 27 Report Posted March 27 On 3/25/2026 at 6:00 PM, The Man in Blue said: . . . and I have no idea what to make of this search result . . . Remember the movie "Deliverance"? Well, that is what hillbilly umps are sporting in the South! 1 Quote
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