MYTAB on purpose.

[beerguy55]

If you determine/believe a team tried to bat out of order intentionally, is there additional recourse?

 

Eg. Bottom of last inning, down a run, 7, 8 and 9 are due up, and they're collectively 0/15 and have a combined "Bingo" average of .071 on the season (but they're better than your bench) - your top five hitters are where all your offense comes from - they're 28/30 in the game.  OC sends the leadoff batter up - thinking risk/reward is in his favor.   Possible outcomes:

- DC acts right away and gets 7 up to bat - no risk for OC

- DC waits until 1 gets out, then since he got out, decides to continue to pitch to 2, making 1's at bat legal - somewhat ideal outcome; yes, one out, but 2 and 3 coming up.

- DC waits until 1 gets out, appeals, 7 is ruled out and 8 is up.  Very little risk, 7 was going to get out anyway

- DC waits until 1 gets on base, appeals, 1 is removed, 7 is out, 8 is up - same same.

- DC doesn't notice in time - jackpot

OC could do the same starting with 9, offering him as a sacrificial lamb, trying to get the leadoff batter up with one out.

Seems there's all reward, no risk to attempting this. If DC notices, no harm no foul...if he doesn't....woohoo!!  If DC comes out and says "come on Blue, that's a pretty blatant batting order screwup, anyone can see it was intentional" can you really do anything?   What if you somehow KNEW it was intentional?  Does this fall under the same category as the bunt play where R2 misses third base by 30 feet?

[beerguy55]

On 10/13/2025 at 9:27 PM, The Man in Blue said:

Why do I care if it was intentional or not?  I mean that seriously.  What exactly does the coach want us to do?

"I got you, Coach.  He's on double-secret probation, now."

I thought that might have been self-evident in the question.  Any reasonable coach would want any reasonable umpire to enforce the rules.   If there was a rule about it, I would expect you to care.  If there is a rule to support some penalty - warning, ejection, forfeit, etc - I would expect the umpire to enforce said rule.  If there's nothing to enforce then I would expect the umpire to say "yup, good on you for noticing - you'll have to bring it up with the league." 

Edit: Knowingly sending the wrong batter to the plate is cheating - most people - players, coaches, spectators, administrators, impartial observers, etc - right, wrong or indifferent, expect umpires to deal with cheaters.   It can be an unfair or unfounded expectation, but it's not an unreasonable question to see what is in the umpire's purview.

[jimurrayalterego]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

If you determine/believe a team tried to bat out of order intentionally, is there additional recourse?

 

Eg. Bottom of last inning, down a run, 7, 8 and 9 are due up, and they're collectively 0/15 and have a combined "Bingo" average of .071 on the season (but they're better than your bench) - your top five hitters are where all your offense comes from - they're 28/30 in the game.  OC sends the leadoff batter up - thinking risk/reward is in his favor.   Possible outcomes:

- DC acts right away and gets 7 up to bat - no risk for OC

- DC waits until 1 gets out, then since he got out, decides to continue to pitch to 2, making 1's at bat legal - somewhat ideal outcome; yes, one out, but 2 and 3 coming up.

- DC waits until 1 gets out, appeals, 7 is ruled out and 8 is up.  Very little risk, 7 was going to get out anyway

- DC waits until 1 gets on base, appeals, 1 is removed, 7 is out, 8 is up - same same.

- DC doesn't notice in time - jackpot

OC could do the same starting with 9, offering him as a sacrificial lamb, trying to get the leadoff batter up with one out.

Seems there's all reward, no risk to attempting this. If DC notices, no harm no foul...if he doesn't....woohoo!!  If DC comes out and says "come on Blue, that's a pretty blatant batting order screwup, anyone can see it was intentional" can you really do anything?   What if you somehow KNEW it was intentional?  Does this fall under the same category as the bunt play where R2 misses third base by 30 feet?

From the Comment to the rule: "This rule is designed to require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both teams."

[noumpere]

Report it to the league and let them take additional disciplinary action.

[The Man in Blue]

Why do I care if it was intentional or not?  I mean that seriously.  What exactly does the coach want us to do?

"I got you, Coach.  He's on double-secret probation, now."

[Mussgrass]

It would seem a bit like where a runner intentionally cuts the corner rounding 3rd base to knowing exploit the limitations of the 2 (or 1) umpire system. Our sense of fair play says there should be a penalty for cheating. At the same time there are rules to deal with the infraction but they require vigilance on the part of the defense.

[beerguy55]

18 hours ago, Mussgrass said:

At the same time there are rules to deal with the infraction but they require vigilance on the part of the defense

I don't disagree - the real problem here is, under the objective of fair play, there's no real risk to the offense to continue to try to get one by the defense. Beyond wasting a lot of time with all the appeals and corrections, it's kind of like not having any crimes that start with "attempted".  Most, if not all, other infractions in the baseball rulebook have an element of risk/reward baked into the rule/penalty, if not the play itself.   Even the bunt play where R2 cuts the corner at third still has some risk of an umpire noticing some percentage of the time, or the defense opting to play R2 who is now between third base and the pitcher's mound.  MYTAB for a really SH*#ty batter is zero risk, all reward.  (Mostly; I've actually seen some tourneys/leagues have a local rule/bylaw that makes any MYTAB two outs - basically ruling that both the person who improperly batted AND the person who should have batted are ruled out).

Some acts of cheating could be addressed by the umpire, supported by the rules (eg. doctoring the ball).  Others would be more administrative for the league - falsified birth certificates, game fixing, spiking the other team's cupcakes, etc.  It's likely intentional MYTAB falls under the latter. 

I would hope though, if doing something in game would be overstepping, that an umpire can at least see a cheat for what it is, hold it in some disdain, and be willing to at least report their impartial observation and opinion to the league when asked...if not unsolicited.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Most, if not all, other infractions in the baseball rulebook have an element of risk/reward baked into the rule/penalty, if not the play itself.

"The baseball rulebook was written by gentlemen for gentlemen, not lawyers for lawyers"

[flyingron]

49 minutes ago, Velho said:

"The baseball rulebook was written by gentlemen for gentlemen, not lawyers for lawyers"

We are all honorable men here.   We do not have to give each other assurances as if we were lawyers.  

[Velho]

13 minutes ago, flyingron said:

1 hour ago, Velho said:

"The baseball rulebook was written by gentlemen for gentlemen, not lawyers for lawyers"

We are all honorable men here.   We do not have to give each other assurances as if we were lawyers.

Nice pitcher you got there coach. Be a shame if anything happened to his strike zone...