ABS coming to MLB full time next year

[orangebird]

https://www.mlb.com/news/abs-challenge-system-mlb-2026

[dumbdumb]

never an if situation, but a when situation and umps agreed and they could have done it this year (E--management.). how about giving them an extra pitch challenge (that would be a total of 3) but for that 3rd challenge you would have to give up 1 of your field challenges (safe out, trap no trap, catch, no catch, etc), but you 'could not' add an extra field challenge by giving up one of your pitch challenges.

either way, lets see if only the teacher's pets (bonus babies, etc) get to challenge while the other members of the teams have to just have to accept what they get, and just be happy to be there.

[SeeingEyeDog]

If I'm managing, I'm running reports updated daily about who is swinging at what pitches. The three guys who are swinging at the most strikes and taking the most balls...those are the only three guys I am authorizing to challenge.

~Dawg

[Velho]

2 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I'm running reports updated daily about who is swinging at what pitches. The three guys who are swinging at the most strikes and taking the most balls...those are the only three guys I am authorizing to challenge.

And no pitchers allowed to challenge!

[jimurrayalterego]

3 hours ago, Velho said:

And no pitchers allowed to challenge!

Does that mean marginal pitches should be strikes?

[Velho]

7 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

3 hours ago, Velho said:

And no pitchers allowed to challenge!

Does that mean marginal pitches should be strikes?

No. It means that, on whole, pitchers think everything should be a strike.

I recall seeing that discussed out of the spring training trial. F1 had the worse challenge success rate as a group. F2 were the best.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

I recall seeing that discussed out of the spring training trial. F1 had the worse challenge success rate as a group. F2 were the best.

Unsourced but "I heard it on the internet" - 2025 spring training: catcher challenges had 56 percent success, hitter challenges were 50 percent and pitchers bringing up the rear at 41 percent.

[BigBlue4u]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Unsourced but "I heard it on the internet"

Well, that ought to tell you everything.  😞

 

[concertman1971]

Having worked 2 seasons in the Pioneer League, which uses Trackman and challenges (max 6 per game, miss 3 and done), I am a fan of it. Does it suck to get overturned on a strike 3 punchy only to have the batter challenge and get back in the box with a 2-2 count? YUP. Also, at the pro level it forces umpires to focus for the entire game. Even in a 9-1 blowout. Remember, some of these guys are on bonus contracts, and an at bat "taken away" in a blowout just to get the game over could be worth 10's or even 100's pf thousands of dollars to the player. 

F1- Let em challenge. Almost every pitch they challenged was a confirmed ball. I did have a catcher once ask me to ignore the pitcher if  he challenged. LOL.

F2- These guys know what a strike looks like, especially if they are at their home stadium. Most got really good at learning when to challenge. Ball a 1-1 pitch, no one on, early in the game, he is probably not challenging. Late in the game, 2-1 or 0-1 pitch that was balled, good chance if he thought it was a strike he is challenging. They really learned to save the challenges for bigger moments. 1st season I had a team out of challenges in the 2nd inning.

Hitter- Let em. Coin flip most of the time for these guys. 

Just my $0.02, but I love it. 

[Velho]

47 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said:

2 hours ago, Velho said:

Unsourced but "I heard it on the internet"

Well, that ought to tell you everything.  😞

 

Ha, yeah.

Sourced: https://sports.yahoo.com/article/mlb-abs-challenge-system-explained-160028322.html

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, concertman1971 said:

Hitter- Let em. Coin flip most of the time for these guys. 

At 50% overturn rate, this is literally a coin flip.

 

Here is my new proposal: With gambling playing a larger and larger role around the game, we should introduce it directly into the game.  No limits on the number of challenges, but every one is a double-or-nothing situation.

Umpire calls a strike, hitter challenges . . . challenge system upholds the call, now it is TWO strikes.

Umpire calls a ball, pitcher/catcher challenges . . . challenge system upholds the call, now it is TWO balls.

[SeeingEyeDog]

14 hours ago, concertman1971 said:

Having worked 2 seasons in the Pioneer League, which uses Trackman and challenges (max 6 per game, miss 3 and done), I am a fan of it. Does it suck to get overturned on a strike 3 punchy only to have the batter challenge and get back in the box with a 2-2 count? YUP. Also, at the pro level it forces umpires to focus for the entire game. Even in a 9-1 blowout. Remember, some of these guys are on bonus contracts, and an at bat "taken away" in a blowout just to get the game over could be worth 10's or even 100's pf thousands of dollars to the player. 

F1- Let em challenge. Almost every pitch they challenged was a confirmed ball. I did have a catcher once ask me to ignore the pitcher if  he challenged. LOL.

F2- These guys know what a strike looks like, especially if they are at their home stadium. Most got really good at learning when to challenge. Ball a 1-1 pitch, no one on, early in the game, he is probably not challenging. Late in the game, 2-1 or 0-1 pitch that was balled, good chance if he thought it was a strike he is challenging. They really learned to save the challenges for bigger moments. 1st season I had a team out of challenges in the 2nd inning.

Hitter- Let em. Coin flip most of the time for these guys. 

Just my $0.02, but I love it. 

This is extremely insightful...thank you, Brother C-Man.

~Dawg

[BLWizzRanger]

@concertman1971

I apologize if this is out of line.  I don't want to put you on the spot so defer if you want to.

So what is your percentage of correct calls in these situations and do you mumble under your breath an 'FU' when the challenge goes in your favor?  And, how has it helped your strike zone?

 

[MadMax]

19 hours ago, Velho said:

I recall seeing that discussed out of the spring training trial. F1 had the worse challenge success rate as a group. F2 were the best.

And this translates into umpires as well. Ex-pitchers have the “worst” (or, least-effective) strike zones, while ex-catchers have the “best” strike zones. 

Ahem… 16 years as a catcher, TYVM. 

I’m ambivalent to a/the challenge system, but am all in favor of it as long as it’s demonstrably installed “correctly”. Cuz ya know what doesn’t matter a heap of beans on ABS or Challenge accuracy? Timing. 

[concertman1971]

3 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

So what is your percentage of correct calls in these situations and do you mumble under your breath an 'FU' when the challenge goes in your favor?  And, how has it helped your strike zone?

Last plate job I had, I was 2/2 Home team and 1/1 Visitors, some others 2/4, 3/6, 2/3, 0/3, 2/4. On my 3/6 day, I was 3/4 and the V F2 (late call up) was complaining about not getting a call in a blowout game. I told him they would challenge the pitches if I called them strikes. So I intentionally called a couple of borderline pitches strikes and guess what.....calls overturned. After the 2nd one I said to him, "this aint college anymore."

Mumble under breath....................You bet. Both ways. When  a strike is confirmed OR when it is overturned. 

[BLWizzRanger]

5 hours ago, concertman1971 said:

Last plate job I had, I was 2/2 Home team and 1/1 Visitors, some others 2/4, 3/6, 2/3, 0/3, 2/4. On my 3/6 day, I was 3/4 and the V F2 (late call up) was complaining about not getting a call in a blowout game. I told him they would challenge the pitches if I called them strikes. So I intentionally called a couple of borderline pitches strikes and guess what.....calls overturned. After the 2nd one I said to him, "this aint college anymore."

Mumble under breath....................You bet. Both ways. When  a strike is confirmed OR when it is overturned. 

That would be the difference between an FU and an FM (F Me)... lol

[dumbdumb]

6 hours ago, concertman1971 said:

Last plate job I had, I was 2/2 Home team and 1/1 Visitors, some others 2/4, 3/6, 2/3, 0/3, 2/4. On my 3/6 day, I was 3/4 and the V F2 (late call up) was complaining about not getting a call in a blowout game. I told him they would challenge the pitches if I called them strikes. So I intentionally called a couple of borderline pitches strikes and guess what.....calls overturned. After the 2nd one I said to him, "this aint college anymore."

Mumble under breath....................You bet. Both ways. When  a strike is confirmed OR when it is overturned. 

so, as i have hypothesized, are your game scores pretty much from 86-10O just like ump scorecards has for the MLBU. basically you make the same mistakes they do and the same way. sometimes you unintentionally miss more on one team than the other, and sometimes you miss more important pitches situationally unintentionally on one team than the other. and do only those with the best scores for the year work the playoffs while the others go home.

[The Man in Blue]

14 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

so, as i have hypothesized, are your game scores pretty much from 86-10O just like ump scorecards has for the MLBU. basically you make the same mistakes they do and the same way. sometimes you unintentionally miss more on one team than the other, and sometimes you miss more important pitches situationally unintentionally on one team than the other. and do only those with the best scores for the year work the playoffs while the others go home.

 I am not saying any of us don’t miss pitches … but is this more a factor of us missing, or more a factor of the different looks that we get from different batters/catchers?

I had a PITA coach who was really pushing the limits with his griping about calls the other team got versus calls his team got. In my last ditch effort to be nice, I stopped him between innings and told him to look at his catcher’s position and movement compared to the other catcher. Yeah, I am seeing two completely different things when your catcher pushes me back an extra 5 feet, won’t sit still, and thinks jerking the pitch every time is going to get him calls.

[concertman1971]

16 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

game scores pretty much from 86-10O

Low 83.1 High 91.1 unadjusted, and they use no buffer zone.

[Velho]

29 minutes ago, concertman1971 said:

17 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

game scores pretty much from 86-10O

Low 83.1 High 91.1 unadjusted, and they use no buffer zone.

Give the 1/2 inch+ margin of error (that's the Hawkeye moe and Trackman is supposedly less accurate that Hawkeye) no buffer zone is tough. I'm not familiar with their software setup so not sure how purposeful that is by the administrators.

I'm sure it's biased so that 83-91 is really 93-101 accurate. 😁

[The Man in Blue]

I am filing a patent for my Double-Or-Nothing Challenge Eliminates Errors system.

“Don’t let the DONCEE make an ass out of you!”

[dumbdumb]

On 9/25/2025 at 11:46 AM, MadMax said:

And this translates into umpires as well. Ex-pitchers have the “worst” (or, least-effective) strike zones, while ex-catchers have the “best” strike zones. 

Ahem… 16 years as a catcher, TYVM. 

I’m ambivalent to a/the challenge system, but am all in favor of it as long as it’s demonstrably installed “correctly”. Cuz ya know what doesn’t matter a heap of beans on ABS or Challenge accuracy? Timing. 

all right TYVM. lets have unlimited challenges and see which catchers should consider pro umpiring as a second language so to speak, if they blow out their rotator bad enough they have to retire after just two or three years, or maybe while climbing the ladder before they get to the show.

or would they say, i would never do what you guys do because of what we do to you guys or (take all the horsemanure you guys have to take from us).

 

 

 

[MadMax]

13 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

or would they say, i would never do what you guys do because of what we do to you guys or (take all the horsemanure you guys have to take from us).

That’s not it. It’s a Catch-22… catchers also make tremendously good, effective Managers / Head Coaches. That’s not to say that ex-Pitchers or ex-field players aren’t or can’t be excellent coaches themselves. Quite the contrary, they do tremendously well as role-specific coaches (hitting, pitching, etc). But, when it comes to the guy that coordinates and manages it all, a catcher is usually the guy that makes it all tick. 

So once a catcher (or any player, really) hits that fork in the road, where the playing days ends, and there’s a path towards and into coaching, or towards and into umpiring, what factors go into the decision? 

Money (the payoff), obviously. Another is one’s own interpersonal or relational disposition (dealing with others is not everyone’s forté). Another is one’s location relative to need/demand. In my own case, while I’ve got an excellent coach’s (trainer/instructor/developer) disposition (or so I’ve been told; it must be from being the son of a coach and a special Ed teacher), I didn’t pursue baseball-related coaching because I lacked the credentials (excellent as a positional catcher, woeful as a batter), and my location – in wintery Wisconsin – didn’t present a viable need. I got into umpiring “late”, and my skillset and career only took the dramatic upswing it did because I was blessed with the latitude to… well… change my latitude. 

Not every prospective umpire seedling has that latitude, or may ever see it. We have to do more – a great deal more – to find these prospective umpires where they are. 

[dumbdumb]

On 9/28/2025 at 8:39 PM, MadMax said:

That’s not it. It’s a Catch-22… catchers also make tremendously good, effective Managers / Head Coaches. That’s not to say that ex-Pitchers or ex-field players aren’t or can’t be excellent coaches themselves. Quite the contrary, they do tremendously well as role-specific coaches (hitting, pitching, etc). But, when it comes to the guy that coordinates and manages it all, a catcher is usually the guy that makes it all tick. 

So once a catcher (or any player, really) hits that fork in the road, where the playing days ends, and there’s a path towards and into coaching, or towards and into umpiring, what factors go into the decision? 

Money (the payoff), obviously. Another is one’s own interpersonal or relational disposition (dealing with others is not everyone’s forté). Another is one’s location relative to need/demand. In my own case, while I’ve got an excellent coach’s (trainer/instructor/developer) disposition (or so I’ve been told; it must be from being the son of a coach and a special Ed teacher), I didn’t pursue baseball-related coaching because I lacked the credentials (excellent as a positional catcher, woeful as a batter), and my location – in wintery Wisconsin – didn’t present a viable need. I got into umpiring “late”, and my skillset and career only took the dramatic upswing it did because I was blessed with the latitude to… well… change my latitude. 

Not every prospective umpire seedling has that latitude, or may ever see it. We have to do more – a great deal more – to find these prospective umpires where they are. 

now max, you know they want to go the player coaching etc route because that gets you the first class citizen treatment and best of everything( power, money, fame, adulation (look at me, look at me), etc etc and especially all the great equipment, rather than being a lowly second class citizen status and the punching bag lowly umpire that can't even get (a majority of the time) the good equipment made for them like the players because of volume purchase etc, etc.

ps- are you practicing, at this time of year, the famous Badger rendition of the Michigan fight song?, or have you forgotten the words.