HS Playoff Crews

[urout17]

Our organization uses two umpires for our regular season HS games. After a couple weeks, we ask anyone who is interested to join us for a number of field clinics to learn three-man mechanics. After these clinics, we invite 6-8 umpires back for real games.  Over a period of a few weeks, we're able to utilize our Saturday JV doubleheaders, rotating umpires around and in/out.

In our state, you must be certified by their evaluator in order to work games out of your area. Usually mid way through the season we select 5-6 umpires from those JV games to get state evaluated. After an umpire passes their evaluation, our organization has a selection committee that puts umpires on crews, usually a couple of veterans with the new guys.  We usually submit 6-7 three-man crews to the state. These crews will then periodically work games together throughout the regular season getting used to each other as a unit. Theoretically, when playoff time rolls in, you should be prepared. 

I'm asking if anyone can tell me how you go about your evaluations and crew selections, as I'm looking for any ideas.

Thanks for your time.

[834k3r]

Fun fact:  this is the first year the state tournament is sanctioned by the state HS athletic association, meaning this is the first year we'll have each district represented for the baseball state tournament.

We have 6 districts (regions). Each district has slots for each level of playoffs (i.e. District 1, 2, and 3 each get 1 slot for 6A for example). Within each district, our umpires have two rankings:  peer and evaluation committee. Post season assignments are doled out accordingly.

[The Man in Blue]

@urout17 . . . you have an Illinois plate for your avatar . . . you know what a joke we are.

About the Power Rating (listed on main page): The Power Rating is calculated on or about the "snapshot date" of September 7 for fall sports, December 7 for winter sports, or April 7 for spring sports. Any information that changes after the snapshot date -- including clinic attendance, change in promotion level, or ratings by schools or officials -- will not be included in the Power Rating. The IHSA administrator uses the Power Rating calculated on the snapshot date to make state series assignments. The Power Rating is viewable for two months after the snapshot date.

How the Power Rating is Determined: The power rating is a number from 0 to 35, derived from 7 different criteria, as follows:

1. Promotion level: Certified (C) -- 5 pts., Recognized (R) -- 3 pts., Registered (X) -- 1 pt.
2. Part 1 exam score: 96 -- 5 pts., 92 -- 4 pts., 88 -- 3 pts., 84 -- 2 pts, 80 -- 1 pt.
3. Previous tournament experience within the last five (5) years for contests by this gender (updated July 1, 2022): state final -- 5 pts., super-sectional or football semifinal -- 4 pts., sectional or football quarterfinal -- 3 pts., football second-round game -- 2 pts., regional or other football playoff game -- 1 pt.
4. Contest ratings (percentile rank of all officials): 90% -- 5 pts., 80% -- 4 pts., 70% -- 3 pts., 60% -- 2 pts., 50% -- 1 pt.
5. Top 15 lists (percentile rank of all officials): 90% -- 5 pts., 80% -- 4 pts., 70% -- 3 pts. 60% -- 2 pts., 50% -- 1 pt.
6. Clinic attendance (most recent clinic): this year -- 5 pts., last year -- 3 pts., two years ago -- 1 pt.
7. Varsity games worked (percentage of games a school is allowed to play in the regular season in that sport): 70% -- 5 pts., 60% -- 4 pts., 50% -- 3 pts., 40% -- 2 pts., 30% -- 1 pt. See table below.

		5 pts.	4 pts.	3 pts.	2 pts.	1 pt.
SPORT	MAX	70%	60%	50%	40%	30%
Baseball	35	25	21	18	14	11

 

(And those "games worked" are not verified . . . it is all based on the honor system of what you enter for your projected schedule.)

I have 11 points in boys volleyball . . . a sport we do not even have.

[urout17]

My avatar was for my motorcycle plate when we lived in Illinois. I liked it so I kept it. Living in Florida now, I no longer ride a motorcycle. I suppose I should change it since we've lived here for 8 years now.

Sent from my SM-A546U using Tapatalk

[ilyazhito]

26 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

@urout17 . . . you have an Illinois plate for your avatar . . . you know what a joke we are.

About the Power Rating (listed on main page): The Power Rating is calculated on or about the "snapshot date" of September 7 for fall sports, December 7 for winter sports, or April 7 for spring sports. Any information that changes after the snapshot date -- including clinic attendance, change in promotion level, or ratings by schools or officials -- will not be included in the Power Rating. The IHSA administrator uses the Power Rating calculated on the snapshot date to make state series assignments. The Power Rating is viewable for two months after the snapshot date.

How the Power Rating is Determined: The power rating is a number from 0 to 35, derived from 7 different criteria, as follows:

1. Promotion level: Certified (C) -- 5 pts., Recognized (R) -- 3 pts., Registered (X) -- 1 pt.
2. Part 1 exam score: 96 -- 5 pts., 92 -- 4 pts., 88 -- 3 pts., 84 -- 2 pts, 80 -- 1 pt.
3. Previous tournament experience within the last five (5) years for contests by this gender (updated July 1, 2022): state final -- 5 pts., super-sectional or football semifinal -- 4 pts., sectional or football quarterfinal -- 3 pts., football second-round game -- 2 pts., regional or other football playoff game -- 1 pt.
4. Contest ratings (percentile rank of all officials): 90% -- 5 pts., 80% -- 4 pts., 70% -- 3 pts., 60% -- 2 pts., 50% -- 1 pt.
5. Top 15 lists (percentile rank of all officials): 90% -- 5 pts., 80% -- 4 pts., 70% -- 3 pts. 60% -- 2 pts., 50% -- 1 pt.
6. Clinic attendance (most recent clinic): this year -- 5 pts., last year -- 3 pts., two years ago -- 1 pt.
7. Varsity games worked (percentage of games a school is allowed to play in the regular season in that sport): 70% -- 5 pts., 60% -- 4 pts., 50% -- 3 pts., 40% -- 2 pts., 30% -- 1 pt. See table below.

		5 pts.	4 pts.	3 pts.	2 pts.	1 pt.
SPORT	MAX	70%	60%	50%	40%	30%
Baseball	35	25	21	18	14	11

 

(And those "games worked" are not verified . . . it is all based on the honor system of what you enter for your projected schedule.)

I have 11 points in boys volleyball . . . a sport we do not even have.

Would anything after April 7 count for the next season? 

[The Man in Blue]

[Thatsnotyou]

That’s not true. Contest ratings and top 15s will roll over to next year, as they use the current season as well as the previous two seasons to calculate the percentile rank. 

 

 

[Richvee]

Those of us here in NJ find it rather amusing that states actually have a system, ranking, and process for determining three man playoff crews, and post season assignments. 

[MadMax]

9 hours ago, urout17 said:

In our state,

Illinois? Hoooo boy… 

What’s working against you is that in Illinois, there are over 100 associations working under the IHSAA umbrella. There isn’t one united, or standardized set of evaluator guidelines, or metrics. 

Hard to hit a goal when you don’t know where the goal is. 
🤔. o O (This is why I get irritated with umpires who vacuously say, “I’m trying to get better.” Better at what? What are you focusing your efforts and honing of skills towards? What’s your benchmark to claim that you are “better”? Determine a goal.) 

3 hours ago, urout17 said:

Living in Florida now, I no longer ride a motorcycle.

Oh. This changes things. The highest concentration of pro-level umpires are in two states: my former state of Arizona, and yours – Florida. You’re potentially so exposed to 3-man and 4-man experience, you can pretty much learn by proxy or adjacency. 
Of course, a big component of advancement or promotion in college umpiring – which uses 3-man and 4-man the most (by volume) – is “consistency of proficiency” and situational handling. You’re expected to know the rules. There is no fudging or wiggling, and there is no “make 💩 up”. That will not fly in postseason. There are concessions made in 2-man that are supposed to be rectified in 3-man… or, why else to have a third umpire? 🤷🏼‍♂️ So, that’s what “consistency of proficiency” means… that the three umpires will consistently be in positions/rotations/pushes that improve adjudication (calling of plays). One of the most telling is U1, actually. The latitude (and confidence-in-knowledge) to step TSOL, be set, and adjudicate the play at 1B… without having to move (other than a read step), or dash (pivot… ugh) in, or worry about anything else. Same goes for U3, equipped with the latitude to stay at B-deep, and fully see the force play at 2B, and not worry about turning to 1B. Wing umpires can (and should) go out on fly balls  in their extended zones. HCs, who typically favor being in the 3BC tend to act… more restrained(?)… and tend to give less blatant grief to PUs when there’s a (good) U3 lurking. 

Of course, 2-man performance often carries the most weight on influencing who are tapped to be candidates. Additionally, “seniority” is often a paper-tiger of a litmus test as to if an umpire gets tapped as a candidate. The more seniority an umpire has – without anything more than token playoff inclusion – the more tense said umpires get… or jaded. 

Consistency of proficiency is a much better litmus test. 

[The Man in Blue]

18 hours ago, urout17 said:

My avatar was for my motorcycle plate when we lived in Illinois. I liked it so I kept it. Living in Florida now, I no longer ride a motorcycle. I suppose I should change it since we've lived here for 8 years now.

No, keep it!  Since the state raised the personal plate costs, they are rare to see any more.  This makes me smile for nostalgia.  😁

 

16 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

That’s not true. Contest ratings and top 15s will roll over to next year, as they use the current season as well as the previous two seasons to calculate the percentile rank. 

Maybe semantics, but using three years of data is not the same as rolling over games you work after April 7 (IMO).  Using three years of data is a way to ding a guy who doesn't have 3 years in.

 

14 hours ago, MadMax said:

Illinois? Hoooo boy… 

What’s working against you is that in Illinois, there are over 100 associations working under the IHSAA umbrella. There isn’t one united, or standardized set of evaluator guidelines, or metrics. 

Extra A -- that's another state.  😁

But you are correct.  The IHSA does not want any control because that comes with more responsibility.  This bean-counting bureaucratic method suits them just fine.  Nobody has to leave an office.  Nobody has to be accountable for watching, training, rating, etc. 

Local associations are just that -- local associations.  I won't say they are all bad, but in Central IL most are little more than social clubs and old boy networks.  They might put on the required annual clinic, but those are usually sketchy.  They spend more time planning their golf outings than providing training.

Even then though, the associations don't have any true input beyond the social networking and the old boy connections.  Even with the numbers, they are manipulatable over a large enough set of data (and segregated geographic areas).

IHSA is stepping into it a bit, IMO, in that they are now listing "Assignors" on their website.  But not all assignors, just the "usual suspects."  (See the comment above)

At risk of sounding as if I am venting or bitter (I'm not, I just hate that the system is so broken and is not living up to our full potential) . . . 

(Warning, trying to make a long story short)

Last year I let loose on a softball assignor over the phone after he had sent us to a game that hadn't existed in over two months (canceled two weeks after the schedules went out).  Not his first foray into fouling up.  After the regular season, during the first round of post season, he sees me at the hardware store.  I tried to ignore him.

He asked me where my post-season assignment was.  I advised him that he was aware that I won't work post-season because I refuse to play the games.  He said, "You're good enough you should have been to state by now!"  I said thank you and added, "When somebody comes to watch me work, and then says 'Hey, you're good, we'd like to have you work post-season!', then I will work post-season."

Two days later my phone rang.  It was a call directly from IHSA [name and title redacted].  They said they wanted to do a three-man crew for the first round final, and asked if I would work it.  I said sure.

Skipping gory details . . . it was raining that day.  I reached out to find out the contingency plans (next day? nearby turf field?).  Nobody bothered to contact me to tell me they had bumped the game up and had played it the previous day.  I asked if I was expected there.  Again, nobody bothered to contact me to tell me the host school decided they didn't want to pay a third umpire due to losing gate money to rained out games (which excused me).

Yeah.  Not even if they call, now.

[Richvee]

17 hours ago, Richvee said:

Those of us here in NJ find it rather amusing that states actually have a system, ranking, and process for determining three man playoff crews, and post season assignments. 

The four mixed emojis for this post is so fitting. I'd guess it sums up @Kevin_K's feeling as it does mine. ...Funny, Sad, and confused 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

The four mixed emojis for this post is so fitting

Is that the first ever quant or quint post?

[Thatsnotyou]

5 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Maybe semantics, but using three years of data is not the same as rolling over games you work after April 7 (IMO).  Using three years of data is a way to ding a guy who doesn't have 3 years in.

The point is that the ratings for those games count. Otherwise, every year only games worked the first three weeks of the season would matter. You’re essentially going off the last two full seasons of ratings with a handful of current season ones sprinkled in. 
 

As you likely know, at least in the suburbs, most first/second year guys aren’t getting a playoff assignment as they aren’t an R yet, only an X. So I don’t know that the ratings are dinging anyone; they haven’t been promoted yet. As a third year X, they have two prior seasons of data and are on the same footing for ratings, they just aren’t an R yet. 

[DevildogUmp]

6 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Extra A -- that's another state.  😁

 

And that extra "A" would be Indiana where officials become post-season eligible by:

1. Being licensed at least 2 years (eligible in year 3)

2. Being a member of a recognized local association.

3.  Attending all 6 required meetings 

4. Attend a certification clinic in the past 2 years

5. Pass the Part II written test

6. Officiate a minimum of 10 varsity contests in the year. (Maximum of 14 count towards your score)

Then the state does hocus-pocus with a score combining the above + years of post season experience and your average coaches score for the past 3 years to come up with your officials ranking. Then they assign, supposedly starting at #1 through #192 (or lower if umpires decline the assignment) in order to put together all the 3-man crews needed for sectionals. 

While your crew could theoretically be made up completely from your local association or 2 guys from one association, it is likely that crews are meeting each other for the first time when they show up to the field for the first game of the sectional.

 

Matt

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, Thatsnotyou said:

The point is that the ratings for those games count. Otherwise, every year only games worked the first three weeks of the season would matter. You’re essentially going off the last two full seasons of ratings with a handful of current season ones sprinkled in. 
 

As you likely know, at least in the suburbs, most first/second year guys aren’t getting a playoff assignment as they aren’t an R yet, only an X. So I don’t know that the ratings are dinging anyone; they haven’t been promoted yet. As a third year X, they have two prior seasons of data and are on the same footing for ratings, they just aren’t an R yet. 

 

We know this, but for any outside of Illinois reading this . . . Promotion is a process, not a time earned advancement.  (Your post makes it sound as if it is automatic.)  There are three levels.

You have to be at your current level for at least two years.

You must get three letters of recommendation . . . one from a fellow umpire, one from an athletic director, and the third from a second fellow umpire or another athletic director.  (After assignors started taking over, we no longer have much contact with athletic directors to develop those contacts.)

Then there is a Part II test that has to be taken within a short window (two weeks?  one week?  not sure).  This can only be done within a short window of time each year.

And you have to have attended a Level 2 clinic in the last year.

I have never bothered to apply for promotion because I didn't care enough about post season.  10 "official" years in baseball and I am an X.

 

The only thing I would like to do is become a clinician.  I'm sure I never will because I don't play the game.  I have not been able to find any information on how to do this.  When I have asked nobody has gotten back to me.

 

Despite all that, there are still people who are selected, targeted for the future (based on connections), and leapfrogged in the "statistical" process.

 

[Kevin_K]

If I am not mistaken, the process is kiss the ring, profess blind acquiescence to any and all schedule changes, keep every date available only to a single assignor, volunteer to teach the next generation of officials while bolstering the bottom line of a narcissist, and make donations to the charity of your assignors choice. Don't be too concerned with on field performance because no one ever comes to evaluate anyone.

 

[urout17]

On 4/18/2025 at 12:19 AM, Richvee said:

Those of us here in NJ find it rather amusing that states actually have a system, ranking, and process for determining three man playoff crews, and post season assignments. 

Richvee, I'm not trying to be funny or antagonistic but I'm not sure what that means?  

[Kevin_K]

14 minutes ago, urout17 said:

Richvee, I'm not trying to be funny or antagonistic but I'm not sure what that means?  

I am also from NJ. There is no objective measurement employed to assign the HS state tournament. There never has been and there will likely never be. Hence the amusement when people ask question like the one you posed. Often, I shake my head when I see the names of umpires on late round games because I have worked with them and their greatest qualification for being on the field is longevity.

In NJ county tournaments hold equal weight in many respects to the state tournament. County tournaments are held in season and are usually played on a once a week schedule as the regular season progresses. One of the county finals in my area has a crew that includes an umpire who has officiated for more than 25 years. He is a great guy and does a great job in many of the youth leagues in the area. His HS experience is thin and he struggles with mobility, rules knowledge, rotations, and, in many cases, judgment. He has also never taken any active role in any officials association or training program. So how does that assignment happen? Maybe because his first cousin is a long time influential member of the baseball community? We won't ever know.

If there is a rating system it clearly cannot be how assignments are made. This is not sour grapes or the green eye of envy. I have worked many high level contests in multiple sports, including state finals, and I think that there are a lot of officials who should be in the rotation because of their abilities on the field and their activities in the officiating community off the field. 

One person makes the decision for all assignments for every single post season game in the entire state. For those of you keeping score, New Jersey has 6 groupings in HS sports based on two factors - public or private; and student population. The public schools classification include 4 sections each (that's 24) and the privates include 2 sections (that's 4).

Each section is a 16 team tournament, so there are a total of 15 games per section. That's 90 games and approximately 200 slots to fill in about two weeks. The only way all those slots get filled is from recommendations from the local chapters that are run by...... that's right......... the good old boys network.

So, maybe amusement isn't the best way to describe the smirk, head shake, and WTF? that so many of us seem to repeat year after year. That's how things like what happened in 2016 don't really shock me any longer. What word might be better?

[urout17]

I was hoping that was the reason.  Coming from Illinois that's pretty much how it was there too. I remember that 
"rating" system that was mentioned earlier and it was hs. Living here in Florida, I guess the way we're doing it in our area isn't that bad considering.  We really do make an effort to get new guys experience with hirer level games and to advance in the playoffs, which we're in right now.