Half swing protocol

[HumblePie]

This is going to be a two-parter, in the NFHS rules set.

1) Please give me examples of when you decline to go to your partner on a half swing appeal. Mine is limited to when I believe the appeal is frivolous, such as a catcher or coach asking to appeal every little flinch. I never refuse to go to my partner based on his position in the field, with one exception: to go to my partner in A with a left-handed batter, I have to be really sincerely questioning myself.

2) Is there any, perhaps "rogue" video, circulating that says something to the effect of:

"Going to your partner in B or C, (or A with a lefty), for a half swing, is not a legitimate appeal in 2-man."???

Please don't tell me this is wrong ... I already know it's wrong and that's not my question ...

But my question stems from multiple Varsity coaches using that same argument, that they have seen an instructional video that says it is not legitimate to appeal to a partner in the middle of the field or on the opposite side of a lefty.

[Replacematt]

1. Lose the exception. If it's a legitimate request, send it. Which brings me to...

Is there really an example of a team (player, coach, etc.) getting so intentionally inane that they ask on everything and do so obviously without good faith? I've never seen it happen. No umpire I've ever asked has ever had that happen. My threshold for not going is so high that I can't picture a situation where that would come into play without an ejection for arguing balls/strikes before it got to that point.

In short, I never decline. I have never seen a frivolous appeal request that warrants it. 

2. Dunno, and don't assume similar incorrect concepts are coming from a particular source. The past few seasons, it's "have some feel." Never heard that before about 2022.  

[MadMax]

1) Because I (can) work all 3 core rulesets on a daily basis, check-swing appeals are one of those… facets(? mechanisms?) that I don’t give a second thought to on performing (ie. checking) – I just do every time. Regardless of where my BU(s) are. 
The only limit I have is when I work solo… and even then, in ST or College scrimmage, I’ll entertain an “appeal” request. 

This investiture of PU with some sort of divine power in NFHS, that he can deny check swing appeals, is just… stupid. Just make it easy on Urselves (all umpires), and check fer cryin’ out loud. 

2) The only videos that would be out on the baseball landscape would be from 1 of 3 likely sources: 

1. Some state association PowerPoint deck, or some “video examples” that were shared between the state association and the state coaches. 
2. Some YouTube -based coaching-for-hitters “advice”. 
3. Anyone with access to, by proxy or adjacency, any NCAA -based sources. NCAA coaches are constantly pestering NCAA umpires as to “what are you looking for?”, trying to quantify some golden measure or standard by which they can instill into their hitters “not to do” or cross, or by which they can snipe, “He did (their guy) / didn’t (our guy) do that!” 
    

The thing that we have to remember – even OBR and the Umpires whose careers are based within it, don’t have a video tutorial directing on what to look for regarding check swings. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

3 minutes ago, MadMax said:

This investiture of PU with some sort of divine power in NFHS, that he can deny check swing appeals, is just… stupid. Just make it easy on Urselves (all umpires), and check fer cryin’ out loud. 

I'm beginning to think one could write a book on things in FED and not in FED that should have been addressed years ago. I get it...LL is not the same as HS, is not the same as college, is not the same as pro. We know we're going to have some different rules and we should. (Attention...the game of golf? Are you paying attention?)

I have asked countless umpires over the years about this "check swings go through plate in FED and it's then their decision to go to a partner." rule and the "best" explanation I've gotten is..."Well, you know, if you're having a problem with a coach or a player (likely F2), or if they are unduly delaying the game with unnecessary or numerous appeals, now you can feel free to not grant his request for a check swing." Right...yeah...good...sure, 'cause what I need to be doing as an umpire is looking for opportunities to make a bad night at the ballpark even worse. Yeah, that's just like...THEIR OPINION, MAN. That's not a choice I'm going to make.

As usual, I am with Max here...you get an appeal? Grant the appeal. Do we or do we not want to get the call correct? Your ego can take it. The first step is admitting you might have a problem.

~Dawg

[BLWizzRanger]

 

[grayhawk]

I don't think I have ever refused to appeal on a check swing. What's the downside?

[jimurrayalterego]

4 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

I don't think I have ever refused to appeal on a check swing. What's the downside?

There is no downside to granting an appeal. There is a downside to granting an appeal with a non standard signal which many MLB crews do, understanding that these crews know what their PU means with that gesture such as what Joe West used, except for at least one where the PU's right arm strike signal was seen as an appeal by U1 who said he didn't go.

[noumpere]

12 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

I don't think I have ever refused to appeal on a check swing. What's the downside?

Bases loaded, two outs, team leading by 9. Pitch is ball 4 and we all go home. Team appeals and its strike three and we stay on the field an extra hour. 
 

(to be clear, I’d grant the appeal—but it is a downside)

[grayhawk]

35 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Bases loaded, two outs, team leading by 9. Pitch is ball 4 and we all go home. Team appeals and its strike three and we stay on the field an extra hour. 
 

(to be clear, I’d grant the appeal—but it is a downside)

 

[834k3r]

I've never denied an appeal from a team. I've often internally wondered why they appeal, but I'll never deny their appeal--even if my partner is in B or C.

[Richvee]

I might be alone on this..But I think seeing a swing from "A" on a LHB is the easiest of all appeal calls. Sure, I'm not going to great look on a borderline check swing, and the default is "no he didn't", but, if I see a barrel out in front of a LHB's front hip from "A", there's no doubt he went. 

[noumpere]

58 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I might be alone on this..But I think seeing a swing from "A" on a LHB is the easiest of all appeal calls. Sure, I'm not going to great look on a borderline check swing, and the default is "no he didn't", but, if I see a barrel out in front of a LHB's front hip from "A", there's no doubt he went. 

I recall some “study” (how scientific I don’t recall) where the umpire “behind” had the best look / greatest accuracy. Players and coaches hated it, so it was dropped. Heck, I think in NCAA we went to the umpire on the line in 3 man for a year or two. Ditto the dropping part. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

I might be alone on this..But I think seeing a swing from "A" on a LHB is the easiest of all appeal calls. Sure, I'm not going to great look on a borderline check swing, and the default is "no he didn't", but, if I see a barrel out in front of a LHB's front hip from "A", there's no doubt he went. 

Rich, you need to warn us to put on our sunglasses before you dazzle us with that kind of brilliance...seriously, thank you.

I have had *chiefs* pre-game with me that when they are in A I should NOT come to them on a check swing with an LHB. I did as I was told but...yeah, barrel past the hip? We have a strike. We can call that, if properly appealed. What's the problem?

Have an opinion...have an opinion on EVERY play, whether it's your call or not. You have a runner into 2B. Now plate has a runner coming home. He trips and falls. You have time to see that play. What did you see? You saw something.

Big deal...your partner wants to get together and you have nothing different? Fine. That's an opinion. You both nod your heads convincingly in complete agreement, regardless, break the huddle and stay with the original call. Have an opinion. That's umpiring.

~Dawg  

[834k3r]

16 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Have an opinion...have an opinion on EVERY play, whether it's your call or not. You have a runner into 2B. Now plate has a runner coming home. He trips and falls. You have time to see that play. What did you see? You saw something.

This is potentially OT--and apologies to @HumblePie for it, but Dog's is an understated point.

You're a BU with nothing going on with a play at the plate? How about getting yourself in position to see something from a different angle rather than just standing there in C with your hands in your pockets?

No one on and a no-doubter to the left center gap? How about coming out from behind the plate and helping out if something blows up, Mr. PU?

[SeeingEyeDog]

52 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

This is potentially OT--and apologies to @HumblePie for it, but Dog's is an understated point.

You're a BU with nothing going on with a play at the plate? How about getting yourself in position to see something from a different angle rather than just standing there in C with your hands in your pockets?

No one on and a no-doubter to the left center gap? How about coming out from behind the plate and helping out if something blows up, Mr. PU?

This...that...and more of summa' dat over there, too. We don't need a manual or a clinic or a camp or a pro school guy to tell us...take care of your primary responsibilities and then look to back up your partner(s) when and where you can.

~Dawg