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HumblePie

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    Rogue Valley Umpires Association
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    Software Design
  • Types/Levels of Baseball called
    Adult MABL down to 9-year-olds
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    ABUA (umpire.org)

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  1. There was an ABA Basketball player for the Indiana Pacers named Bob Netolicky in the late 60s and 70s. He was briefly a member of the San Antonio Spurs in 1973 between tours with the Pacers, and there was an incident where the Spurs lost a home game to the Pacers, but protested that there was a missed 10-second violation prior to the game winning shot. The Commissioner ruled in favor of the Spurs, and ordered that the final 30 seconds of the game must be replayed the next time the Spurs are in Indy to play the Pacers. The day after the game in San Antonio, Netolicky was traded back to the Pacers, so when the initial game was finished in Indy, at that point, he was playing for the opposite team. ONE DIFFERENCE. Despite Netolicky telling this story for 45 years, it was revealed in 2018 that although he suited up for the Spurs in the initial game, he didn't actually play. (OOPS ... Brian Williams disease???)
  2. Regarding the Baseball IQ of this particular coach, how in the hell do guys like this get to be coaches in the first place? My dad would have hung me up by the beltloops 50 years ago if I had hit a batter twice in the head instead of standing and throwing it firmly back to the pitcher. There is a notion, a citation, called SIP in many states ... "Stupid in Public." No, it's not real, but law enforcement jokes about it all the time ... wishing they could hand out citations simply because people are stupid in public. I really think we need some kind of a mechanism in youth baseball for these scenarios. "Coach ... I'm sorry ... I have to call SIP ... your next three batters will start their at bats with an 0-1 count." If he continues to display his unmitigated ignorance, hit him with another one. Start the next three batters with 0-2. If he continues, don't eject him ... just call the next three batters out on automatic strikeouts. I SWEAR I would back such a system for Varsity High School Coaches who make up Sh-- all the time, then SWEAR that it's somewhere in the Rule Book. Can't figure out the Courtesy Runner rules? OK ... sorry Coach ... that's IIP ... bordering on SIP ... tell #21 he's running for your pitcher, but he has to take off his left shoe, and he has to carry 10 lb dumbbells as he circles the bases.
  3. (I'm pretty sure there's only one camp .....)
  4. There is a reason this notion has never gone anywhere ... because the arguments you've put on the table are weak. Saying, for example, "PU already has the fair/foul calls down the LF line, or the ball bouncing over the 3B bag" is a weak argument. It is a BAD thing that PU has to take those calls in two-man. It's not helping things by bringing the right side of the infield down to the level of the left side. Those calls are made by PU out of sheer necessity, not because there is any merit to it. Honestly, this sounds like the position of an old or lazy umpire who doesn't want to stay in shape. I have ZERO objections to an umpire who is an elder statesman or hobbled in some way utilizing B as a way to "stay in the game," but for the rest of the fraternity, it ain't broke.
  5. Let me just say ... I don't call Little League, and I would not take part in a tournament where a coach can stop the game and call for the TD or the UIC without a protest and without a protest fee being placed on the table. You think you know the rules better than the officials? Put your money where your mouth is. If you're proven correct, you get it back. I've always thought the protest fee should go to the umpire if the protest is not upheld, and if the umpire was proven wrong, he should give up his game fee. Your recount of these situations were so long I almost lost interest in the middle. I'm not saying that to take a shot at you. I'm saying ... that indicates to me that you probably use far too many words when talking to coaches and players too. I'll say this as well... I'd never put my personal cooler in the dugout where I could possibly create a stir with a coach. There is always a better option. No unnecessary words, no unnecessary eye contact, no unnecessary rabbit ears. I hate it when my partner gets too chatty, and I have been accused of the same early on in my career. It almost always dulls your concentration. I vehemently disagree with you and vociferously agree with BigBlue for saying that if you miss a balk, try to let the pitcher know subtly ... you absolutely set the precedent that you're not gonna call it otherwise. The argument I hate the most is, "I've been coaching for 35 years ... and ..." It's arguing for authority. If I don't recognize your authority, and I don't believe in your authority, it's no different than a Christian arguing with a Muslim, and one is using the Bible and the other is using the Koran. It's sophomoric on both parties' parts to do so. Just tell the coach you don't want to hear his resume', the rule is this, and let's play ball. There are firm, yet gentle ways to say that.
  6. BigBlue, have you ever been pushed or bumped or blocked? I have ... all three ... and I never forfeited a game over any of the three. I ejected the guilty party, let the dust settle, gritted my teeth and bore the rest of the game, wrote a report, and moved on. In one case the coach never coached again. In one other case, the coach was fired (travel ball). In the third case, the coach got enough people to say he was not intentionally blocking me from leaving, and they bought it, but still suspended him for one week. I could have easily screwed up all three of these incidents if I had pushed back.
  7. 1) Balks being immediately dead is huge. It only happened once in 21 years, but I called a balk 8 years ago and the batter hit what would have been a 3-run home run. It was just wrong to have to take that off the board because the FEDERATION doesn't think we know the MLB balk rules. 2) Combining both types of Obstruction into one rule is wrong. Very confusing and difficult to administer. 3) Allowing dead ball appeals ... either as a time saver or because again, they don't understand how a proper appeal must be executed. Not changing rules to keep up with MLB (OBR) rules is frustrating. Allowing the 3rd to 1st move and fakes to 3rd, which have been outlawed for ten years in MLB, is wrong. The players go back and forth between rule sets from spring varsity ball to summer ball, and it's just needless. FED's reasoning is that they don't want to re-teach the balk rules. They never taught them in the first place ... are you kidding me? There are several others that you would likely tell me all fall under the heading of safety, which I get, but it is frustrating to "pussify" the game. I don't recall what position you hold with FED.
  8. I know with the exception of the last post, this thread is 3 months old, but I'm surprised that no guidance was given along the way for guys who might honestly not know what to do in this situation. Guys, the Coach was wrong. 1000%. He doesn't get to say, "The fight started when he hit me ... all I did was give him a light shove." The Coach is evidently a POS and has a DV charge, so he has no business coaching in this league in the first place. BUT ............. He's also a LOT younger than the umpire, and he did not use a weapon, not even his fists, and we all know that cameras are EVERYWHERE these days. The chance of this interaction at the plate NOT being captured on someone's cell phone or a GoPro cam is remote. Almost none. The umpire probably had a $250,000 lawsuit sitting in the palm of his hands if he had kept his cool. He could have pursued it with all the vigor he deserved, then turned around and given the settlement money to LL Baseball, as a donation, and handled it all beautifully. Instead, he looks worse than the coach in the end. That coach would likely have been suspended for the remainder of the season, and likely not allowed to coach in that town for two more years if the DV charge is legit. Taking a sloppy roundhouse pot shot at the Coach with his mask after his partner already stepped in was not only as cowardly as the Coach's shove, but downright stupid. He didn't swing his mask once, in defense, but at least ten times, on offense. I thought I was witnessing a fight between two 5th grade girls. In some counties, if the police had been called right then and there, they likely both would have been charged, cuffed, dragged to jail, and I'm not sure the umpire would "skate" after they watched the video of him using his mask as a weapon with not even a punch preceding it. I happen to be a 3rd Dan in Shotokan, and I've never used it in my life outside of the Dojo, and it prepared me well for just such circumstances. When we get into umpiring, we don't expect this to happen, but we all know it eventually could happen, and to appear to be the aggressor kills our fraternity's reputation. The base umpire really did react almost like he had seen this scene before out of his partner, and he was smart enough to stay out of it. BEAUTIFUL opportunity wasted.
  9. I would say "lazy" officials, not necessarily newer officials. And by your statement, you may as well be describing FED. They have dumbed down and shorthanded many rules because they don't really understand them, don't really want to understand them, and don't believe officials can understand them.
  10. Georgia, actually, outside of Atlanta. I believe I worked 114 baseball games in my brief stop here in Oregon, but it was a wonderful 5 months. Georgia, as I'm sure you know, has 10 times as much baseball as Oregon.
  11. Thanks, Blue, I always respect your input, and we traded thoughts many times before my 5 years away. Let me shed just a little light on the situation with my recent 11u scrimmage. It may not change a thing in your mind, which is fine, but it just wasn't a situation where I was feeling like I had to be a hard a$$. Thursday night, the Royals, a well-established 10u team who has just turned 11, were trying to book a field time for a practice on Friday, and saw there was only one hour available from 6 - 7. A brand new 11u travel team, the Colts, had booked the field for their practice from 7 - 8. The two team moms contacted each other and floated the idea of combining for a scrimmage, wearing their uniforms, taking photos, and getting umpires to make the boys feel legit. It was the first time some of the boys from the Colts would be pitching with runners off the base. One of the team moms posted something on FB saying she needed two umpires for a 6pm - 8pm 11u scrimmage. My assignor contacted her, and tried to get her two umpires, but I was the only one available (many do football on Friday nights) and I had to work at 7:00 pm. I know my assignor fully explained to her that this was very unusual, but since it was a scrimmage, and not counting for any league, he would get her one "elder" umpire who may be helpful explaining pitching mechanics rather than just calling balks without a teaching element. He went out of his way to explain to her that he doesn't send umpires solo to work games, and that this would be a valid exception. The original offer was $60 per man with a 1:45 time limit, which wasn't changed when he could only find one, but someone threw a $20 bill in as a tip (I'm guessing), and I made $80, had a good scrimmage, and got to work only 15 minutes late or so, after getting someone to cover for me. It won't happen again, because I wouldn't even hear about it or know about it if it did ... my assignor would simply tell her no, that was a one-time accommodation. I felt good about that. Comparing the "innocence" of a group of parents putting together a new 11u travel team with the hardened savvy of a Public High School AD and Bookkeeper blatantly trying to buck the system is REALLY comparing apples with oranges. The former is a little sloppy and learning as they go. The latter was stealing money. At that time, a Varsity or JV game paid $80. A qualified DH paid $135. They were screwing umps out of $25. Most of us elder statesmen would have to admit that we're not doing this for the $$$, but the young guys need that $25, and yet they are the ones who aren't savvy enough to fight for it. And Karma is alive and well in Middle Tennessee. That school was later audited and busted and fined and humiliated for financial malfeasances (nothing criminal, supposedly). **One other afterthought: Another High School, also in Middle Tennessee, once hosted a big tournament which was paying $80 per man per game straight up. I worked 2 games, and was set to come back the next day. They handed me my check, but I never looked at it. I called another umpire who had also worked the tournament, and the same comptroller who handed him and his partner checks for $160, handed me and my partner checks for $135. When I got to the park on Sunday (Day 2), I asked to see her, and I asked her to her face, how is it that she's paying certain guys $135 for two games and other guys $160 for two games. Her reply, "I was told to try to pay the DH rate unless we receive pushback, and then to pay the $80 per game rate." I asked her, "And you can sleep at night? By whom were you told to do this?" She wouldn't say. Clearly, it was her boss, who was the high school's AD. I handed her back my first check and told her unless I receive a corrected check for Day 1, and unless my partner receives the same, and unless I receive an accurate check before the first pitch for Day 2, I'll be heading home and taking my partner with me. I called my assignor and reported all this, and one by one, he discovered that 5 other umps had been underpaid. That is the quintessential definition of stealing money.
  12. There have been two times I have stood at the plate meeting and told the HTHC, "I advise us not to play, Coach, I don't think the field is safe, and if you call it now, I won't be taking a fee ... once we throw a pitch, it's a full fee." Both times, I called the game shortly thereafter, and both times, the same HTHCes complained. In the first incident, I called it after both pitchers were slipping on the mound in the 2nd inning. In the second incident, the HTHC came out after 7 pitches and said, "Hey, Bobby, we can't do this ... it looks like more rain and lightning is coming." I said, "OK. Ballgame!" The a$$hole STILL tried to get us not to take our fees. A Mom in the concession stand who controlled the money told him she heard the entire conversation, that I advised him against it, and he refused, and she stuck the money in our hands with smoke coming out of her ears. Here's an unrelated but still germane comment about calling a game due to darkness on a field without lights. If a player from the losing team makes ANY comment about having trouble seeing, "BALLGAME!!!" I've done it at least three times, and that's what I told the coach. "Coach, YOUR player felt uncomfortable continuing ... I was ALREADY uncomfortable. That's ballgame."
  13. Gentlemen ... I'm going to resurrect this thread because I just called an 11u scrimmage two Fridays ago that called for an umpire on the day-of, because they were only able to schedule the scrimmage that same day, and they just got "stuck" without time to plan. This is not a case where they were necessarily trying to save money ... they just wanted at least one real umpire calling balls and strikes instead of having a dad or mom step out of the stands to do it. Normally, I fall into the camp of not calling solo games on principle. I did this more to appease my assignor than anything else. If he had not used the word "scrimmage," I likely wouldn't have taken it. I have umpired in three states, and am about to start in my fourth state in 2025. I have seen all kinds of manipulation by leagues, by coaches, by commissioners, by schools, by ADs, by Tournament Directors, by moms, and by city officials in an effort to save money and milk all they can milk out of impressionable or weak umpires. I did five years in prison for a vigilante' crime. I have been intimidated for the last time in my life. I'm not about to be intimidated by people who have poor planning skills, and play on our sympathies by using the, "Come on, now, it's for the kids" bull****. BUT ......... I think there are a lot of facts and truths that are being unspoken on this thread that annoy me just as much, perhaps more, from our own fraternity. I'm currently in Oregon, and I'll state it this way ... the umpiring I.Q. and level of pride to wear the uniform is far superior here than in my last stop (Tennessee). There could be a hundred different reasons for it, but it's my experience. I've worked with an umpire who asked a Varsity Coach, classlessly, at the plate meeting, what day we should get paid ... and if the upcoming spring break is gonna cause a delay, because he's got bills to pay. I've had guys step out of their cars, and before we even fist bumped each other, say, "Man, let's get this S--- overwith ... I'm playing golf this afternoon." I've had guys literally say, "Let's try to get a mercy rule out of this one." I've had guys try to impose mercy rules after four innings that didn't exist. I've had guys make horrendous "out" calls late in games just to "end it" because the score is lopsided. I've had guys purposely take games they never intended to call, then cancel 30 minutes prior, to allow their partner to fly solo and make double pay or at least time and a half under the guise of a family emergency. I've had guys take conflicting games from three different assignors, knowing that they would have to turn back two of the three, just to wait as late as they could to take the best offer, then leave the others stranded. I've had guys cancel on varsity games an hour prior to first pitch because they "forgot their equipment bag, and were coming straight from work." Anyone who has umpired for even 5 years knows that you wind up with FAR more mercy rules that shorten games than you end up with EXTRA INNINGS games that lengthen them. I once had a partner walk off the field of an Adult League game because the game was tied 1-1 after 9 innings, and he suddenly didn't feel it was right for us to keep playing without getting paid extra for it. I finished the game by myself, reported it to the assignor (actually the Head Coach had beat me to it) and he was never used again. My point is ... there have been enough BAD umpires ... unprofessional umpires ... who tarnish our reputations, that if I can help out a well-meaning coach, or commissioner, or TD, by calling a game solo in a pinch, I'm probably gonna do it. It's not about the money ... it's about giving him/her a breath of fresh air that says, "Wow ... that guy and his assignor are dependable ... THAT's where we need to go for all our umpires in the future." If the pinch becomes a habit, then I'm out. I've got one final tournament to call here in Oregon before I move, and I've already told my assignor that there is one person I refuse to work with. He starts every game or every day of multiple games with the "Let's get this overwith" crap ... or talks about how tired he is, or about what he gave up to take these games. My sentiment is, "STAY THE F--- HOME! I'm here to enjoy my favorite hobby." Many years ago, there was a particular high school in Middle Tennessee that had a bookkeeper and AD who would do anything and everything to screw the umpires coming to the school to call a Double Header. The state policy was simple: If Game 2 was scheduled for no more than 90 minutes later than Game 1, meaning a JV short game followed by a Full Varsity Game, then a DH discount applied. Otherwise, we were to be paid for 2 distinct games. This particular school tried to skirt the policy, and they had enough spineless or ignorant umpires who just took what they were given and never complained about it, that I had enough. I told the bookkeeper one day of her error, and before I finished my sentence, she tried to silence me with the "No one else has ever complained" bulls***. So, after getting my corrected shortfall 3 weeks later, I stood up in an Association meeting, and in front of our Assignor and all of our Officers, I implored 115 umpires to refuse assignments to this particular school. I explained that even if you don't mind taking the discount for doing two distinct games, you're screwing all the guys that come behind you, because you've established the wrong precedent. My Assignor started to freak out, but I stood my ground and told him to use my name when he deals with that school, and I'll testify before the state board over what they are doing. Wouldn't you know it ... our Assignor finally realized he had no other choice but to tell the school that he could no longer assign them officials until they signed an agreement to abide by all the state's policies, and that if ANY umpire gets paid incorrectly again, he will immediately stop sending them officials. There's a time to acquiesce, and there is a time to shut it down.
  14. Welcome, StrasburgUmp ... you've received a ton of great advice by the gentlemen above. I'd like to add a few thoughts from which I've benefited over the years. Without knowing your age, I'll share that I got a relatively late start, and didn't umpire my first game until I was 40, when I was coaching my oldest son in 8u Coach Pitch baseball, and the league approached many of us coaches and said, "Either step up and umpire in age groups where you have no child playing, or we're gonna have a lot of games with an umpire working solo." I stepped up for no other reason than that, and I ended up loving it. This is my 21st year, but many guys my age have 35-40 years under their belts. It was the best thing I ever did, hobby-wise, and I would even encourage a 60-yr-old to jump in if he has the enthusiasm that you apparently have. It may have sounded like "hyperbole" to be told, "Forget everything you've ever known from a player/coach perspective about the game," but the truth to that statement is staggering. A few examples: 1) Can you explain the Infield Fly Rule, how it works, when it applies, and why it was put into the rule book in the first place? 90% of otherwise good umpires cannot properly explain it (or its origin) even if they generally make the right call. 2) Can you explain the Dropped 3rd Strike rule (better called the "3rd Strike, Not Legally Caught" rule), how it works, when it applies, and why it was put into the rule book in the first place? Hint ... it was created for the very same reason as the Infield Fly Rule. 3) Do you know the difference between Obstruction and Interference? Most coaches I know use the word Interference for both infractions, and they really don't know much about either rule, yet they are more than willing to argue your calls. 4) Are you aware of the rule that explains when a defensive player is not allowed to intentionally drop a pop up or a line drive (meaning, allow the ball to touch his glove, pop out, and fall to the ground), and perhaps more importantly, when he is allowed to do so? Again, most coaches cannot explain this rule, yet they will argue them like they wrote them. 5) Did you know that when you double off a runner after a caught fly ball, that is not a Force Out, but rather, an Appealed Out? Even though no one said a word (e.g. "He left early, Blue!"), that is the case. And why does it even matter what it's called? It matters ... Hugely ... and very few coaches know this, and all of the same coaches love to argue that a run should not have scored because of that Force Out being the 3rd out of the inning. 6) Do you know the difference between a FOUL BALL, a FOUL TIP, and a FLY BALL over FOUL GROUND? Neither do most coaches. They are very different animals, and the words get used erroneously and interchangeably all the time ... even with MLB TV announcers such as Joe Buck. "Foul Tip ... back to the screen ..." 7) Have you ever heard of the 40 Myths of Baseball? "Tie goes to the runner, hands are part of the bat, if his feet were fair the ball is fair, he's out of baseline on a home run," etc. Some of the 40 myths no longer apply with a few rule changes over the years, but it is mind boggling how many times in one HS Varsity Season, I hear Varsity Head Coaches quote these myths with abundant confidence that they are rules. What's really disturbing is when you have two equally ignorant Head Coaches on opposite teams smirking and laughing together between innings because they "know" they have a moron for an umpire. It happens. Don't be intimidated by ANYTHING I've just written ... just take the gentleman's advice and forget pretty much everything you've known as a player and a coach, and re-learn the game as an official. YOU WILL LOVE IT. READ the rule books. STUDY and MEMORIZE the case books. READ the rule books. STUDY and MEMORIZE the case books. If you know a lawyer, they will explain that studying Case Law is what got them over the hump and what made far more sense to them than just reading the statutes. It puts the rules in a context that finally makes sense. I would be honored to communicate with you if you would like an "older brother" with quite a bit of time on his hands. I'm about to move 2,650 miles, to a land where they play baseball nearly year round, and will join a new umpiring association there likely before I get a new driver's license. I love it that much. My oldest son is now 29, and he made me a Grandpa, and I sure miss those days of umpiring baseball games with him when he was 16 - 20 years old. I'd give my right arm to have those days back. Enjoy it while you can!
  15. Careful, JonnyCat ... I was around in the 70s ... 😎
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