NFHS Baseball Game Fee vs NFHS Softball Game Fee

[johnnyg08]

Just now, The Man in Blue said:

@johnnyg08 . . . why only two days a week?

Well, in my part of the country...even in public schools, Wednesday is perceived to be "church night" even though it's really when the kids go to their club practices or whatever. The younger grades do have "religion classes" on Wednesdays. 

Which is only a partial truth (go figure) because just 40 miles to the east, Wednesday is one of the busiest days of the week, even for the parochial schools...so there goes that thought. 

The lions share of our games fall on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We have basically zero games on Wednesdays (see above), very few on Mondays & Fridays and almost never on Saturdays and Sundays...minus the occasional Saturday tournament. 

We are a pitch count state, so I suspect another one of the reasons being it allows teams to rest their best pitchers between the Thursday game and the next game on the upcoming Tuesday. 

It makes scheduling very difficult because they even schedule their makeup dates on Tuesdays & Thursdays. 

[johnnyg08]

2 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

IMO, this one will be the real test.  Will they have to pay flag football referees the same as they pay football referees (because that is the pay scale they are accustomed to and won't have interest in it otherwise), or will the sports be different enough to justify a lower pay? 

I can guarantee they won't have the revenue from the gates, so that will be one reason to try.

I also don't see them needing the same number of referees, but I could be wrong.  I know very little about the inner-workings of football referees.

It would surprise me if they play 12 minute quarters in girls flag football. But you're right...it will be a good test. I seems to me the flag game could be adequately officiated with three officials, and my guess is that they'll try to do it with two. 

[The Man in Blue]

We are a pitch count state also, which further confounds me when they try to schedule the way they do.  

Then it irritates everybody when they start cancelling games because they didn't think about the pitch counts and not having pitchers.

Wednesday church used to be tossed about here, but like you are seeing, it gave way to reality.  As you point out though, I think many of the things we do are just "because it was always done that way."  4:30 game times being another!  

[johnnyg08]

1 minute ago, The Man in Blue said:

We are a pitch count state also, which further confounds me when they try to schedule the way they do.  

Then it irritates everybody when they start cancelling games because they didn't think about the pitch counts and not having pitchers.

Tell me about it. I'm the one responsible for trying to cover the schedules. I've made them aware and with their lack of response to the issue I know that they simply don't care as long as the games are covered. 

[The Man in Blue]

2 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Tell me about it. I'm the one responsible for trying to cover the schedules. I've made them aware and with their lack of response to the issue I know that they simply don't care as long as the games are covered. 

Which is back to my "strong man" stance on issues.  They won't care until the games cannot be covered, so why do we go through the contortions that we do to cover up their mistakes and problems and then have to listen to them itch and complain afterwards about the umpires they had?

[MadMax]

16 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I also don't see them needing the same number of referees, but I could be wrong.  I know very little about the inner-workings of football referees.

The primary reason for more officials on a football game is to see and adjudge, in real time, the big three:

1. Holding
2. Defensive Holding
3. Pass Interference

NFHS states that Varsity contests be 5 officials, while for non-Varsity contests (JV, Freshman, scrimmage, etc.) the minimum is 3. The need for additional officials is due to the speed and downfield action of the participants.

You'd think that a girls/womens football game – even flag football – wouldn't involve that much (illegal) contact. However, I can attest, after playing NCAA basketball as a practice player for a BigTen school and being farmed out to oppose both the men's and women's varsity players...

... the women play dirtier.  

[johnnyg08]

16 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Which is back to my "strong man" stance on issues.  They won't care until the games cannot be covered, so why do we go through the contortions that we do to cover up their mistakes and problems and then have to listen to them itch and complain afterwards about the umpires they had?

I don't get in to big, long discussions over it for this exact reason. Choose to use 2 of 7 days to play, then you deal with the shortage on a weekly basis. Then comes the next email to not only continue to play on a Tue or Th, but then move the game up to 3pm so even fewer umpires are available to work the game. 

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

It would surprise me if they play 12 minute quarters in girls flag football. But you're right...it will be a good test. I seems to me the flag game could be adequately officiated with three officials, and my guess is that they'll try to do it with two. 

Here, flag football games last less than an hour; officials can work multiple games in a day (several teams show up at one school and they all play), and the pay is ... pretty good.  I haven't compared it specifically to the football rates.  I don't think they play a lot on Friday's or Saturday afternoons, so football officials can pick up some extra $ during the week.

[Velho]

6 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

they simply don't care as long as the games are covered. 

See, you know the solution already! 😈

[johnnyg08]

20 minutes ago, Velho said:

See, you know the solution already! 😈

We all know the answer. Sigh

[The Man in Blue]

7 hours ago, noumpere said:

Here, flag football games last less than an hour; officials can work multiple games in a day (several teams show up at one school and they all play), and the pay is ... pretty good.  I haven't compared it specifically to the football rates.  I don't think they play a lot on Friday's or Saturday afternoons, so football officials can pick up some extra $ during the week.

That is what I envision happening here.  However, even they (football) are going to run out of days of the week.  Around here, Varsity is Fridays primarily (of course), but has had to move to Saturdays and Thursdays to get officials.  JV I believe is usually Tuesdays and/or Thursdays and Freshmen games are on Mondays … add in JFL opportunities … 

[BLWizzRanger]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

That is what I envision happening here.  However, even they (football) are going to run out of days of the week.  Around here, Varsity is Fridays primarily (of course), but has had to move to Saturdays and Thursdays to get officials.  JV I believe is usually Tuesdays and/or Thursdays and Freshmen games are on Mondays … add in JFL opportunities … 

Flag football could always be a spring sport which would compete with B/Gs lacrosse (I don't know if there is a JV team but I would assume so) for the field in my neck of the woods.  If it was done in the fall, V/JV/(maybe freshmen) football, V/JV boys soccer, and V/JV girls soccer would be competing for the field (and don't forget the band spectaculars they have once a year in the fall).

[kylehutson]

Interesting - in my part of the state (I've heard its different around the metro areas), we generally have varsity doubleheaders on Tuesdays and Fridays and JV doubleheaders on Mondays and Thursdays. Wednesday is "family night" (formerly "church night", but they moved away from that a few decades ago). And Saturdays and Sundays are left open.

[umpstu]

On 2/16/2025 at 5:12 PM, MadMax said:

How’s this any different for any other high school sport? 
Football, soccer, lacrosse… 

Ah yes, lights! Lights change everything, and allow those varsity contests to go on at a much more advantageous time! 

So many high schools are installing turf fields so as to ease logistics and maintenance. However, I’ll trade a turf baseball field for a set of lights any & every day of the week! 

I’m more than agreeable to doing a JV game (time limited to 2 hours(?)) followed by a Varsity game. Happy as a frog 🐸 in a bucket of crickets! 🦗 But the one thing that allows that to happen? Lights. 

In case people aren't getting it, the heat in his area and my area gets to be unbearable. Thankfully there is only one school district that doesn't have lights here. 110-120 really sucks.

[johnnyg08]

8 hours ago, umpstu said:

In case people aren't getting it, the heat in his area and my area gets to be unbearable. Thankfully there is only one school district that doesn't have lights here. 110-120 really sucks.

Toasty!

[Craig the Ump]

On 2/11/2025 at 11:14 AM, johnnyg08 said:

If you know...are your NFHS varsity baseball game fees more, less, or the same as your NFHS varsity softball game fees? 

 

Feel free to expand on the rationale as well. 

 

Thanks! 

I am a first year softball umpire and in Texas baseball gets paid more than softball.  With that said, I study the same as baseball, train the same and Softball has some "unique" rules that must be watched for and it's only two innings different.  Last week I had a game that went 14 innings.  I didn't get paid more for the extra game either.

At first I was going to do baseball because that was what I was familiar with, but an older ump who had done baseball convinced me to go to softball (Bigger ball, shorter game). There have been times when we have been playing next to a baseball game that started at the same time but baseball finished first.  These are the cards I am dealt and that's what I'll play with.

[johnnyg08]

59 minutes ago, Craig the Ump said:

I am a first year softball umpire and in Texas baseball gets paid more than softball.  With that said, I study the same as baseball, train the same and Softball has some "unique" rules that must be watched for and it's only two innings different.  Last week I had a game that went 14 innings.  I didn't get paid more for the extra game either.

At first I was going to do baseball because that was what I was familiar with, but an older ump who had done baseball convinced me to go to softball (Bigger ball, shorter game). There have been times when we have been playing next to a baseball game that started at the same time but baseball finished first.  These are the cards I am dealt and that's what I'll play with.

Thanks for chiming...wouldn't it be safe to say though...that if you put 50 random game times up for softball and baseball and that 80% or greater softball games would end at least 15 minutes sooner than the baseball? 

There's no dispute as to the level of preparation, study, etc...

But I think most would admit that excluding outliers, the softball game is faster than the baseball game. 

[Thatsnotyou]

A lot of baseball tournaments use 1:45 or 2:00 limits. Softball uses what, 1:15? 1:10? Softball games take less time even sans limit, that’s just the nature of the games. You can’t pay those the same rate. But again, don’t decrease the softball fee, increase the baseball fee.