NFHS - RE: Nestor Cortes' moves but mostly hats falling off the pitcher's head

[The Man in Blue]

On 4/25/2024 at 10:40 AM, wolfe_man said:

Where does this start/stop once we open that door?  If the batter swings and his helmet falls off - are we going to be addressing that? How about once he hits and it falls off every time that he runs to the next base?  This is a bad string to pick at and unravel.

 

Come on, @wolfe_man, did you even see how much eye black the kid had on?  It obviously greased up his head and his helmet keeps slipping off!  That eye black is dangerous stuff.

As for the parts of your post I edited out for brevity, see my previous post.  You shouldn't just be a Hunter Wendelstadt ("You're probably right . . . "), but there is good reason to enforce this if it is a concern.  

[The Man in Blue]

On 4/24/2024 at 1:27 PM, Tog Gee said:

In the FED realm. Hopefully we don't get a bunch of young folks emulating Nestor's antics, but...

 

Windup

"The pitcher is limited to not more than two pumps or rotations. After the pitcher starts the movement to pitch, the pitcher must continue the motion without interruption or alteration."

Set

Does a FED pitcher have the option to add any extra movements or is the requirement to simply step home and throw? How much horseplay is allowed here? I know the motion must be continuous if there's runners on:

"[balk for] failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion immediately after any movement of any part of the body such as the pitcher habitually uses in the delivery;"

 

Grammar is important.  

" . . . continue the motion without interruption or alteration."

" . . . in a continuous motion . . . "

It is not, as some umpires mistakenly believe it to be, any continuous motion.  So, any stops, random direction changes, twerking, repeating motions, lollygagging, repeating motions, or freaking out, man is a violation.  He is not "fine because he kept moving."

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Grammar is important.  

" . . . continue the motion without interruption or alteration."

" . . . in a continuous motion . . . "

It is not, as some umpires mistakenly believe it to be, any continuous motion.  So, any stops, random direction changes, twerking, repeating motions, lollygagging, repeating motions, or freaking out, man is a violation.  He is not "fine because he kept moving."

Grammer is not important if the people who wrote the rules and interpret them are not grammarians and have left numerous errors in their rules. Do you allow a pitcher to lift his pivot foot slightly to reposition to a sideways delivery in spite of this rule:

"He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot."

The people who wrote the rules and interpret the rules do not think that one delivery is legal which i think is correct by some application of past practice. They did not say it violated the rule you are quoting because that would be a rabbit hole.

[The Man in Blue]

I totally disagree that grammar doesn't matter (I'll leave Kelsey Grammer out of this 😉), particularly when the same people who use that to support their view will tie themselves in knots over shall/should to further support doing nothing.  I will agree they were not grammarians and made mistakes.  That does not mean we discount the spirit of the game because it makes it easier to not have to make calls to collect a check.  

I will also agree that the rule is written to allow for variances and different delivery styles.  Faking a throw to the plate, doing the Charleston, directing in a landing plane, and trying to get all the leeches off of you are NOT part of that.  

As was said in another thread: want it fixed?  CALL IT.

[The Short Umpire]

On 4/25/2024 at 1:03 PM, RBIbaseball said:

 

10-12 sec of messing with his 'fro and getting his hat to "stay on" every time -  x50 ?  ... we wasted a lot of time. I did hurry the kid after a little while and to his credit had a good attitude and was trying to pick it up and speed up faster, 

 

With the NFHS points of emphasis from this year in mind I think this becomes a non issue. NFHS basically said that the pitch clock has been in the rule book since the 70’s but was only put there to be an arrow in the quiver to help keep the game moving but really became a rule that we all silently agreed to ignore. However with the changes in Pro ball and NCAA where the pitch clock is strictly enforced, I think the pitch clock enforcement will trickle down to high school very soon and anyone who has hat trouble will fix it themselves so they can stop having pitch clock violations. Just a thought. 

[Tog Gee]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:46 PM, The Man in Blue said:

It is not, as some umpires mistakenly believe it to be, any continuous motion.  So, any stops, random direction changes, twerking, repeating motions, lollygagging, repeating motions, or freaking out, man is a violation.  He is not "fine because he kept moving."

Yes, we're talking about "continuous, but abnormal, motions". How are those motions illegal?

Or is the idea that a pitcher must pitch in a manner that is considered "normal" or "standard"? As pointed out earlier, the only rule that would seem to address this is "behavior in any manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play;"

I'm not trying to overthink this. Just want to know what is allowed or forbidden and how the rule book backs that up.

 

Does the rule book support that in the set position the pitcher can only step home and throw (when pitching)? Is anything prescribed?

"Natural preliminary motions such as only one stretch may be made."

 

 

I know that for the windup there's some detail:

"The pitcher is limited to not more than two pumps or rotations."

"During delivery, the pitcher may lift the non-pivot foot in a step forward, a step sideways, or in a step backward and a step forward, but the pitcher shall not otherwise lift either foot."

[Jimurray]

8 hours ago, Tog Gee said:

 

"During delivery, the pitcher may lift the non-pivot foot in a step forward, a step sideways, or in a step backward and a step forward, but the pitcher shall not otherwise lift either foot."

Yet we allow a lift of the pivot foot to position fully parallel to the rubber in the windup for the many pitchers who start square or angular. Does that matter to Kelsey Grammer.

[Velho]

[Tog Gee]

Starting to answer my own questions by (finally) finding useful posts from the past.

 

 

[johnnyg08]

Re: caps falling off every pitch

In our state, we enforce it as "properly worn equipment" 

Either get it to stay on, or he's coming out. 

 

 

[Velho]

5 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Either get it to stay on, or he's coming out. 

 

[The Man in Blue]

And . . . had a mad hatter tonight.  First two warm up pitches and he looked like a kid's toy with the top popping off.

Warned him in warm ups to keep it on (didn't mention the penalty).  It wasn't an issue until the last two batters of the game.  As some say around here, wasn't picking that booger at that point.  Just looked at him and patted my head.  After the game, had a conversation with the coach and the pitcher about the safety concern and the penalties (for not keeping it on and for a batted ball hitting it).  

[BLWizzRanger]

11 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

Re: caps falling off every pitch

In our state, we enforce it as "properly worn equipment" 

Either get it to stay on, or he's coming out. 

 

 

Has anyone actually seen a hat fall off? Since I am tracking the ball, I have only seen the F1 pick their hat off of the ground afterwards.

[noumpere]

7 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

A had a conversation with the coach and the pitcher about the safety concern and the penalties (for not keeping it on and for a batted ball hitting it).  

What's that penalty?

[johnnyg08]

7 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Has anyone actually seen a hat fall off? Since I am tracking the ball, I have only seen the F1 pick their hat off of the ground afterwards.

It's pretty easy to see as the base umpire. 

[BLWizzRanger]

5 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

It's pretty easy to see as the base umpire. 

IDK, even if in B or C, I am tracking the ball to the plate.

[johnnyg08]

3 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

IDK, even if in B or C, I am tracking the ball to the plate.

I can't wrap my head around the fact that we claim to not see a cap continuously falling off of the pitcher's head in our periphery. 

 

[RBIbaseball]

14 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Has anyone actually seen a hat fall off? Since I am tracking the ball, I have only seen the F1 pick their hat off of the ground afterwards.

When the hat starts flying, it's all I can see.

[wolfe_man]

6 hours ago, noumpere said:

What's that penalty?

A sore head!

[The Man in Blue]

13 hours ago, noumpere said:

What's that penalty?

I got three bases, coach.

 

[johnnyg08]

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I got three bases, coach.

 

That doesn't apply when the detached equipment is accidental.

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

That doesn't apply when the detached equipment is accidental.

I see nothing about intent or accident.

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I see nothing about intent or accident.

8.3.3F (from 2017 so the numbering may have changed).  "If the umpire decides the detached glove was not thrown or tossed intentionally, there is no penalty.  If the umpire should decide the act was deliberate, he shall advance B1 to third."

[The Man in Blue]

I know we are not going to agree on this.  If you want intent, I would say he was instructed to keep it on.  If a second violation is enough to warrant an ejection, I would argue it is a deliberate (or willingly negligent) act.