Mariners' Moore Out for Abandonment at First Base

[Lindsay]

Mariners batter-runner Dylan Moore lost his single in Kansas City, ruled out by 1B Umpire John Libka for abandonment when Moore wrongly thought Royals left fielder MJ Melendez had caught his fly ball and began running back to his dugout before realizing his mistake and running back to first base where Royals first baseman Matt Duffy's tag was waiting...but was it even needed?

In declaring Moore out sans tag, 1B Umpire Libka invoked Official Baseball Rule 5.09(b)(2), which states, "Any runner is out when after touching first base, they leave the base path obviously abandoning their effort to touch the next base."

The rule itself contains a case play to drive the point home: "PLAY — Runner believing they are called out on a tag at first or third base starts for the dugout and progresses a reasonable distance still indicating by their actions that they are out, shall be declared out for abandoning the bases."

Thus, the only judgment-related question here is whether Moore, who touched first base before turning to jog back to the dugout, had progressed a "reasonable distance" and in doing so "indicating by their actions that they are out"...or was the abandonment out call a tad premature?

Do not confuse this rule with OBR 5.09(b)(10), which states, "Any runner is out when, after they have acquired legal possession of a base, they run the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call “Time” and declare the runner out" if for no other reason than Moore was too confused to have intended to confuse the defense or make a travesty of the game, which begs the question...who was more confused—Dylan Moore today or Jean Segura 10 years prior?

NOTE: Technically, Moore was credited with a single and THEN out for abandonment, as the rule requires the runner have actually achieved first base prior to this call. | Video as follows:

Alternate Link: Mariners' Dylan Moore Out for Abandonment, Loses Single in Kansas City

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[maven]

Regarding the "only question": yes, I do.

[The Man in Blue]

Just going to drop this little question here ...

How can a runner leave the base path?

[beerguy55]

Yes, this is enough to call abandonment.   It would have been more fun if he didn't quite reach first when he decided to go back...then there would have been the chaos Lindsay had hoped for.

On 8/18/2023 at 8:50 PM, The Man in Blue said:

How can a runner leave the base path?

Alien abduction?

[ArchAngel72]

MLB or even MiLB  yeah sure..

 

LL nope they have to enter the dugout or some out of play area 1st 

 

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

MLB or even MiLB  yeah sure..

 

LL nope they have to enter the dugout or some out of play area 1st 

 

Is this guidance or an interpretation?  The rule in LL is almost exactly the same as MLB AFAIK.   "obviously abandoning all effort to touch the next base"

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Is this guidance or an interpretation?  The rule in LL is almost exactly the same as MLB AFAIK.   "obviously abandoning all effort to touch the next base"

What rule # are you using?

I was using 7.10  the 1st note

It uses home plate as the example but we were told 1st base would be the same.  If a kid thought he was out and started trotting back to the 3rd base dugout he is not technically out for abandonment until he steps into the dugout.

 

 

 

At least that's how they described it.

 

[beerguy55]

6 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

What rule # are you using?

I was using 7.10  the 1st note

7.08 (a)(2)

 

7.10 is for Appeals - abandonment isn't an appeal play.

 

Even then - the note simply says the point where the runner forfeits any right to return...NOT that is a prerequisite.

[Senor Azul]

Mr. beerguy55 has cited the correct rule for baserunning. The Instructor's Comments to rule 7.08(a)(2) tell us not to call abandonment unless the runner obviously gives up and reaches foul ground. If the runner has obviously given up and headed to his defensive position in the outfield and has reached the grass then he can be called out for abandonment. 

The guidance for a batter-runner is reaching the dugout and stepping on dead ball ground.

[ArchAngel72]

31 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. beerguy55 has cited the correct rule for baserunning. The Instructor's Comments to rule 7.08(a)(2) tell us not to call abandonment unless the runner obviously gives up and reaches foul ground. If the runner has obviously given up and headed to his defensive position in the outfield and has reached the grass then he can be called out for abandonment. 

The guidance for a batter-runner is reaching the dugout and stepping on dead ball ground.

Well then either they added that in, over the last 2 years or the fella's I was listening to gave me horrible info based off that note.

 

/ponder

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. beerguy55 has cited the correct rule for baserunning. The Instructor's Comments to rule 7.08(a)(2) tell us not to call abandonment unless the runner obviously gives up and reaches foul ground. If the runner has obviously given up and headed to his defensive position in the outfield and has reached the grass then he can be called out for abandonment. 

The guidance for a batter-runner is reaching the dugout and stepping on dead ball ground.

Is your cite for the batter-runner from your most current BRD? While the batter-runner can still be one after touching 1B I think we have to assume an abandonment prior to 1B to use the dugout. Some interesting "what ifs" can be studied in this and the intentional drop OP. Could U1 have called abandonment on Benson as he peeled off the baseline? Would the force stay on if abandonment was called. If abandonment was called in the intentional drop OP would a call to NY on the rule allow abandonment before 1B? Did U1 get lucky that Moore touched 1B before abandoning. Does your BRD still have abandoning removing a consecutive force or has it been revised to the MLBUM interp that abandonment does not remove a force

[kylehutson]

NCAA has no such restrictions...

 

[Senor Azul]

Mr. ArchAngel72, I am forced to conclude that you have been listening to "horrible info." The rule citation I posted earlier was from the 2022 Little League RIM.

After your post I checked the 2013 edition of the LL RIM and it told us the same thing (only in a different way). In 2013 they used a case play from their book "Make the Right Call" to illustrate the point.

The 2021 MiLBUM (section 5.40, p. 69) tells us--

...A baserunner being called out for abandoning his effort to touch the next base does not change a force play to a tag or time play on any other runner(s). Even though an out is called, the ball remains in play in regard to any other runner.

[ousafe]

I think in LL, abandonment typically gets conflated with not advancing on U3K.  In the latter case, BR is only called out upon entering the dugout. (LL 6.09(b))