Brawl post-game in California HS game

[SeeingEyeDog]

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/suspensions-issued-after-bench-clearing-brawl-between-high-school-baseball-teams-in-norwalk/

[Bill Lumbergh voice]: Hello, NFHS? Yeahhhhh...I'm going to need for you to make brooms prohibited in the 2024 FED rulebook...yeahhh...if you could be a bud and make that a-ahhhhhhhh...yeah, point of emphasis? Yeahhhhhh...that'd be great...thanks...

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

I hate to keep going back to this well ...

... but there is only one kind of person who brings a broom out to home plate.  The reaction was appropriate.

 

 

 

[JonnyCat]

I'm so glad these coaches put character above everything else. So nice to see them promote good sportsmanship among their players and parents. You can't blame the coaches here, I'm absolutely certain they had no idea the first player walking out on the handshake line was carrying a broom. I'm sure the coaches try to instill good behavior and respectful attitudes among their players at practices and during games. The coaches were probably vetted very thoroughly, too. I'm sure with the highest credentials to teach these players. The actions of these kids would never reflect the attitudes of the coaching staff.

And don't worry, the California Interscholastic Federation, you know the HS sports governing body that demands respectful play and sportsmanship in this state? They will deal with this with appropriate measures. Probably with a stern condemnation and maybe even a rebuke of those actions. I'm sure a CIF press release with some verbiage like, "CIF does not tolerate nor promote this type of behavior." Thank goodness CIF is on the forefront of behavior standards for HS sports.

[mw94]

1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

I'm so glad these coaches put character above everything else. So nice to see them promote good sportsmanship among their players and parents. You can't blame the coaches here, I'm absolutely certain they had no idea the first player walking out on the handshake line was carrying a broom. I'm sure the coaches try to instill good behavior and respectful attitudes among their players at practices and during games. The coaches were probably vetted very thoroughly, too. I'm sure with the highest credentials to teach these players. The actions of these kids would never reflect the attitudes of the coaching staff.

And don't worry, the California Interscholastic Federation, you know the HS sports governing body that demands respectful play and sportsmanship in this state? They will deal with this with appropriate measures. Probably with a stern condemnation and maybe even a rebuke of those actions. I'm sure a CIF press release with some verbiage like, "CIF does not tolerate nor promote this type of behavior." Thank goodness CIF is on the forefront of behavior standards for HS sports.

so basically do nothing 

[JonnyCat]

15 minutes ago, mw94 said:

so basically do nothing

Noooo, not at all. They will posture outrage, strictly condemn the actions of those involved, and pontificate about how this isolated incident does not reflect the values of CIF. They will satiate the masses and the media by saying they take this matter very seriously and will look into adopting measures that will prevent this type of incident in the future.

So yeah, basically nothing.

[MadMax]

It’s a _prop_! Out of the dugout! 

College has already been experiencing this, and is addressing it (complete with POEs and videos!) with warnings and Ejections. Of course, the warning has to be there, first because college coaches insist that any punitive action that an umpire may take has to be warned first (unless it is egregious / physical). 

And do you know where this stems from?? Yup, pro baseball, and all their silly crowns, hats, and chains. And because cameras follow those guys everywhere, including the dugouts, that behavior gets celebrated on social media. 

And then it slides down the sewer pipe to college…  and all the brooding tribalism that infests that environment, amplified by college football and NIL deals. 

And thennnnn the “misguided, impressionable youth” of high schoolers get ahold of it. Of course, it starts and festers in tournament / club ball, where there is no oversight, and most TDs & umpires “let it go” (or are told to let it go) so as to not upset coaches and parents (who pay the bills). It doesn’t crop up that often in tournament ball, typically because there isn’t that tribal element that school fosters. 

So our state (Arizona) is getting out in front of this, and is applying college-level restrictions upon props out of the dugout, and on “orchestrated celebrations” out of the dugout. 

Obviously, California didn’t interpret it this way. Heck, I’m surprised the broom 🧹 even made it into the dugout to begin with. It was likely labeled as potentially causing cancer in California.

Unless the umpires promptly saw the player bring the broom out, we really cannot fault the umpires. We can’t. We’ve been directing umpires to get off the field as expediently as possible upon the final out, and to not linger around shaking hands and “basking in the glow of a completed game”. Nor should the responsibilities of the umpires be expanded to observe post-game interactions, but I fear that’s where it’s headed, because, of course, the NFHS lacks staff at these events, and places as much responsibility as it can on the only necessary component of an adjudicated game – the umpires (evident by that whole crap of the UIC is the final say). 

No, this one’s squarely on the school – its AD and its coach. If ya really want to send a message, then form it addressing props specifically – not “fighting” generally – and any violation, including this one, vacates a team’s playoff eligibility. 

That’ll see some broomsticks broken. 

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

The coaches were probably vetted very thoroughly, too. I'm sure with the highest credentials to teach these players. The actions of these kids would never reflect the attitudes of the coaching staff.

Do you want some peanut butter with your sarcasm jam, there, Jonny?

[JonnyCat]

16 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Do you want some peanut butter with your sarcasm jam, there, Jonny?

What???!!! Sarcasm? Me, never!

And now, mostly because I live in California and it's mandated, I'm deeply offended. I demand an apology and financial restitution for my pain and suffering. Otherwise, I'll have no choice but to bring the Cancel Culture proceedings against you!

[dumbdumb]

1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

What???!!! Sarcasm? Me, never!

And now, mostly because I live in California and it's mandated, I'm deeply offended. I demand an apology and financial restitution for my pain and suffering. Otherwise, I'll have no choice but to bring the Cancel Culture proceedings against you!

restitution = kept in the lifestyle you have become accustomed too?

[umpstu]

2 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

What???!!! Sarcasm? Me, never!

And now, mostly because I live in California and it's mandated, I'm deeply offended. I demand an apology and financial restitution for my pain and suffering. Otherwise, I'll have no choice but to bring the Cancel Culture proceedings against you!

Besides, we have more important things to worry about.  Like eye black.

[The Man in Blue]

I'm confused ... do we care about black eyes before, during, or after the game?  Maybe this is the problem, we can't tell who got punched if they are all painted up beforehand.

I cannot believe you guys are against props.  The whipper-snappers have proven they can handle jewelry.  THEY PROVED IT!!!!

@JonnyCat, I hope you are not offended.  The State of California has determined being offended can cause cancer.

[JonnyCat]

8 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

restitution = kept in the lifestyle you have become accustomed too?

Yes, due to the mental anguish MadMax has caused me, I'm not longer able to work! That and I want to be an internet influencer like all the cool kids!

[JonnyCat]

6 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

@JonnyCat, I hope you are not offended.  The State of California has determined being offended can cause cancer.

If that's the case, being offended better have the Prop 65 warning label on it! If it doesn't, how am I supposed to know it causes cancer?

[Mudisfun]

With WC and 1st round set to start tomorrow, I would love to see both school, if they even qualified, be removed from contention. These 2 schools are in the area next to me, and on occasion they play in OC for tournaments. The decorum from the LA County area is lacking, to say the least.

[JSam21]

On 4/30/2023 at 1:09 PM, MadMax said:

It’s a _prop_! Out of the dugout! 

College has already been experiencing this, and is addressing it (complete with POEs and videos!) with warnings and Ejections. Of course, the warning has to be there, first because college coaches insist that any punitive action that an umpire may take has to be warned first (unless it is egregious / physical). 

And do you know where this stems from?? Yup, pro baseball, and all their silly crowns, hats, and chains. And because cameras follow those guys everywhere, including the dugouts, that behavior gets celebrated on social media. 

And then it slides down the sewer pipe to college…  and all the brooding tribalism that infests that environment, amplified by college football and NIL deals. 

And thennnnn the “misguided, impressionable youth” of high schoolers get ahold of it. Of course, it starts and festers in tournament / club ball, where there is no oversight, and most TDs & umpires “let it go” (or are told to let it go) so as to not upset coaches and parents (who pay the bills). It doesn’t crop up that often in tournament ball, typically because there isn’t that tribal element that school fosters. 

So our state (Arizona) is getting out in front of this, and is applying college-level restrictions upon props out of the dugout, and on “orchestrated celebrations” out of the dugout. 

Obviously, California didn’t interpret it this way. Heck, I’m surprised the broom 🧹 even made it into the dugout to begin with. It was likely labeled as potentially causing cancer in California.

Unless the umpires promptly saw the player bring the broom out, we really cannot fault the umpires. We can’t. We’ve been directing umpires to get off the field as expediently as possible upon the final out, and to not linger around shaking hands and “basking in the glow of a completed game”. Nor should the responsibilities of the umpires be expanded to observe post-game interactions, but I fear that’s where it’s headed, because, of course, the NFHS lacks staff at these events, and places as much responsibility as it can on the only necessary component of an adjudicated game – the umpires (evident by that whole crap of the UIC is the final say). 

No, this one’s squarely on the school – its AD and its coach. If ya really want to send a message, then form it addressing props specifically – not “fighting” generally – and any violation, including this one, vacates a team’s playoff eligibility. 

That’ll see some broomsticks broken. 

After week two... The warnings for props was taken care of via memo issued by the NCAA for every team, for the rest of the year. 

[MadMax]

4 hours ago, JSam21 said:

After week two... The warnings for props was taken care of via memo issued by the NCAA for every team, for the rest of the year. 

Indeed, the Memo became the Warning (capital letter). And our conference coordinators still issued videos and made it POE on Zoom meetings. 

And yet, we still had coaches in our conference(s) reply with, “Well, no one’s called that on us all year!” 

My snarky response gets queued up (but of course I don’t ever say it) – “Well, Coach, up until just now, your team hasn’t had anything to celebrate all year, either.”