Timing devices

[BLWizzRanger]

So I have a chance to do some college games this year, but not many - my limitations at this time. If I am able to get to five over spring and summer, I would consider it a good year. Anyways, already taken the test and getting excited to start. I figure a timer will come in handy soon.

 

What are your preferences and reasons you use your blackbox or digital timers?

 

TIA.

 

Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Tapatalk

 

 

[JSam21]

I would hold off on a purchase for right now. I personally use the Ref Smart belt timer. It was originally designed, when in baseball mode, to give us an alert with 5 seconds remaining per the rules at that time. The rule has changed for this rule cycle for the batter being required to be alert to the pitcher with 10 seconds remaining. None of the current belt timers can do that. 
 

After speaking with the folks at both Ump Attire and Purchase Officials at the NCAA meeting in Chicago, they are currently working with Ref Smart on doing a retro fit for these timers to change the alert to 10 seconds. They are probably not going to be able to get this done before for everyone before the season starts

[MadMax]

On 1/11/2023 at 9:27 PM, BLWizzRanger said:

or digital timers?

I’ve been stopwatch guy since the beginning of this nonsense… 

 
 

… and I’ll continue to be a stopwatch guy until… as Charleton Heston famously said… 

“From my cold dead fingers.” 
 

… 

… or until TPTB place a countdown clock in the venues I work. 

[BLWizzRanger]

On 1/15/2023 at 7:54 PM, JSam21 said:

I would hold off on a purchase for right now. I personally use the Ref Smart belt timer. It was originally designed, when in baseball mode, to give us an alert with 5 seconds remaining per the rules at that time. The rule has changed for this rule cycle for the batter being required to be alert to the pitcher with 10 seconds remaining. None of the current belt timers can do that. 
 

After speaking with the folks at both Ump Attire and Purchase Officials at the NCAA meeting in Chicago, they are currently working with Ref Smart on doing a retro fit for these timers to change the alert to 10 seconds. They are probably not going to be able to get this done before for everyone before the season starts

Hijacking my own thread here but where are you seeing the 10 second wording in the 2023-2024 NCAA rule book? I know it was in the earlier versions. What I see in the 2023-2024 is:

9.    Batters are expected to enter the batter’s box promptly prior to the first pitch
of an at-bat and should remain in the batter’s box in accordance with the
Batter’s Box Rule. Batters should not delay entry to gain an undue advantage.
If the batter does not enter the box and become alert to the pitcher with 5 or
more seconds remaining, the batter will be adjudged to have violated the rule
and the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the
pitch. The ball is dead, and no runners may advance.

[Jimurray]

3 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Hijacking my own thread here but where are you seeing the 10 second wording in the 2023-2024 NCAA rule book? I know it was in the earlier versions. What I see in the 2023-2024 is:

9.    Batters are expected to enter the batter’s box promptly prior to the first pitch
of an at-bat and should remain in the batter’s box in accordance with the
Batter’s Box Rule. Batters should not delay entry to gain an undue advantage.
If the batter does not enter the box and become alert to the pitcher with 5 or
more seconds remaining, the batter will be adjudged to have violated the rule
and the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the
pitch. The ball is dead, and no runners may advance.

That would have been the one question you got wrong then. Interp and preseason guide make it 10 seconds. 

[BLWizzRanger]

OK, I found it in RefQuest.  Thanks! 

WOW!  I am bewildered why they would date the clarifications 2022-2023 and the rule book 2023-2024... I can see if they missed the publication date of the rule book, but, having 2022 in the title can confuse - well, it did me....

October 25, 2022
Appendix F – 20-Second Action Clock Limit Protocol – #9 - Batter in Batter’s Box.
Interpretation: As noted in Appendix F – 20-Second Action Clock Limit – #9, “Batters should not
delay entry to gain an undue advantage.” The protocol designating that a batter shall be in the box
and alert to the pitcher with 5 or more seconds remaining on the action clock was developed when
the clock stopped when the pitcher started the motion to come to the set position. With the recent
change to the 20-second action time limit, the mechanism that stops the clock is now when the
pitcher “starts the motion to deliver the pitch.” Maintaining the protocol of 5 seconds would place
undue burden on the pitcher to receive a sign, come set and start the motion to deliver the pitch
when a batter waits until 5 seconds remain on the action clock. To address voiced concerns about
gamesmanship and to provide an equitable application of the rule for the offense and
defense, the batter shall be in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher with 10 seconds or
more remaining on the action clock.

[JSam21]

1 hour ago, BLWizzRanger said:

OK, I found it in RefQuest.  Thanks! 

WOW!  I am bewildered why they would date the clarifications 2022-2023 and the rule book 2023-2024... I can see if they missed the publication date of the rule book, but, having 2022 in the title can confuse - well, it did me....

October 25, 2022
Appendix F – 20-Second Action Clock Limit Protocol – #9 - Batter in Batter’s Box.
Interpretation: As noted in Appendix F – 20-Second Action Clock Limit – #9, “Batters should not
delay entry to gain an undue advantage.” The protocol designating that a batter shall be in the box
and alert to the pitcher with 5 or more seconds remaining on the action clock was developed when
the clock stopped when the pitcher started the motion to come to the set position. With the recent
change to the 20-second action time limit, the mechanism that stops the clock is now when the
pitcher “starts the motion to deliver the pitch.” Maintaining the protocol of 5 seconds would place
undue burden on the pitcher to receive a sign, come set and start the motion to deliver the pitch
when a batter waits until 5 seconds remain on the action clock. To address voiced concerns about
gamesmanship and to provide an equitable application of the rule for the offense and
defense, the batter shall be in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher with 10 seconds or
more remaining on the action clock.

Because the book was sent to publishing before the change from 5 to 10 seconds was adopted. This was brought up as something that was missed being changed in the book by Randy at the meeting last weekend in Chicago. This memo was published in 2023. 

[834k3r]

20 hours ago, MadMax said:

I’ve been stopwatch guy since the beginning of this nonsense… 

 
 

… and I’ll continue to be a stopwatch guy until… as Charleton Heston famously said… 

“From my cold dead fingers.” 
 

… 

… or until TPTB place a countdown clock in the venues I work. 

Honest question:  how do you manage your indicator in the same hand?

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, JSam21 said:

Because the book was sent to publishing before the change from 5 to 10 seconds was adopted. This was brought up as something that was missed being changed in the book by Randy at the meeting last weekend in Chicago. This memo was published in 2023. 

Something else that was missed and might relate to a test question is the 6-4-b exception for advancing only runners stealing was removed in the new 23-24 book without any note of a rule change or editorial change. That might make you think NCAA is now the same as OBR and all runners advance when a runner is hit by a pitch. But 7-11-s was not changed and still only advances stealing runners. Did Randy address that at the meeting?

[MadMax]

5 hours ago, 834k3r said:

Honest question:  how do you manage your indicator in the same hand?

Honest response: in what universe does a Base Umpire need an indicator? 

[Jimurray]

5 hours ago, MadMax said:

Honest response: in what universe does a Base Umpire need an indicator? 

I have found the need to use one. If it offends, I keep it in my pocket and as it's a UDC I'm never head down when I should be head's up. But you are not saying the BU doesn't need to know the count, right? We did have a few instances last year in MLB where an indicator would have helped the PU and the other three guys didn't use or need one and just went along for the ball 3 walk or the 4 strike at bat. Can't remenber the details. But even with indicators at the plate we all can eff up sometimes.

[Stk004]

11 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Something else that was missed and might relate to a test question is the 6-4-b exception for advancing only runners stealing was removed in the new 23-24 book without any note of a rule change or editorial change. That might make you think NCAA is now the same as OBR and all runners advance when a runner is hit by a pitch. But 7-11-s was not changed and still only advances stealing runners. Did Randy address that at the meeting?

I might be the only one going crazy looking for the OBR reference, but if anyone else is looking for it the rule is 5.06(c)(8). 

Based on the NCAA test answer I believe all runners would advance, but someone who knows better or has been to an NCAA meeting can correct me. 

[JSam21]

20 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Something else that was missed and might relate to a test question is the 6-4-b exception for advancing only runners stealing was removed in the new 23-24 book without any note of a rule change or editorial change. That might make you think NCAA is now the same as OBR and all runners advance when a runner is hit by a pitch. But 7-11-s was not changed and still only advances stealing runners. Did Randy address that at the meeting?

Yes. All runners advance when a runner is touched with a legal pitch. It was addressed at the meeting. 

[JSam21]

12 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I have found the need to use one. If it offends, I keep it in my pocket and as it's a UDC I'm never head down when I should be head's up. But you are not saying the BU doesn't need to know the count, right? We did have a few instances last year in MLB where an indicator would have helped the PU and the other three guys didn't use or need one and just went along for the ball 3 walk or the 4 strike at bat. Can't remenber the details. But even with indicators at the plate we all can eff up sometimes.

Here is the thing. We all have different responsibilities on the field, while working towards the same goal. We don't ask the plate umpire to run the clock as well as the base umpire. Same reason why they don't ask the base umpires to keep track of the count as well as the plate umpire. There is an expectation that we do our jobs. If we are losing counts with indicators, that is more indicative of a loss of focus. Does it happen? Absolutely it does. But we aren't going to have base umpires running around with both hands occupied while also having to do charged conference tracking paperwork. If you want to run an indicator on the bases, more power to you. The reason that I, and a lot of others don't, simply it isn't our job to. 

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Here is the thing. We all have different responsibilities on the field, while working towards the same goal. We don't ask the plate umpire to run the clock as well as the base umpire. Same reason why they don't ask the base umpires to keep track of the count as well as the plate umpire. There is an expectation that we do our jobs. If we are losing counts with indicators, that is more indicative of a loss of focus. Does it happen? Absolutely it does. But we aren't going to have base umpires running around with both hands occupied while also having to do charged conference tracking paperwork. If you want to run an indicator on the bases, more power to you. The reason that I, and a lot of others don't, simply it isn't our job to. 

Doesn’t the BU have to keep track of the count, and outs, indicator or not?

[JSam21]

6 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Doesn’t the BU have to keep track of the count, and outs, indicator or not?

Not when they are asked to keep track of so many other things. Again, do what you would like to do. But when the people in charge don't want you to do it... 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, JSam21 said:

Not when they are asked to keep track of so many other things. Again, do what you would like to do. But when the people in charge don't want you to do it... 

The people in charge don't want you to have an indicator and also don't want you to know the count?

[JSam21]

31 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

The people in charge don't want you to have an indicator and also don't want you to know the count?

Jim... do what you want to do, however you want to do it. We are told to not carry an indicator on the bases. 

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Jim... do what you want to do, however you want to do it. We are told to not carry an indicator on the bases. 

I'm fine with complying with directions to not use an indicator on the bases. But the BUs still need to keep track of the count, correct?

[JSam21]

2 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I'm fine with complying with directions to not use an indicator on the bases. But the BUs still need to keep track of the count, correct?

My comment was strictly about carrying indicators on the bases. 

[834k3r]

18 hours ago, MadMax said:

Honest response: in what universe does a Base Umpire need an indicator? 

Fair enough. I have worked with a couple people that do carry indicators while working as a BU.

[umpstu]

6 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Yes. All runners advance when a runner is touched with a legal pitch. It was addressed at the meeting. 

If forced or otherwise?

[umpstu]

4 hours ago, Jimurray said:

The people in charge don't want you to have an indicator and also don't want you to know the count?

Are you talking about hs or college umpiring.  Usually a difference.  I carry an indicator on the bases in hs ball, usually in one of my front pockets.  In college ball I have not carried an indicator for ages now.  Have been required to carry some type of timer for quite a few years now. 

[JSam21]

5 minutes ago, umpstu said:

If forced or otherwise?

Everyone up a base regardless. 

[Jimurray]

25 minutes ago, umpstu said:

If forced or otherwise?

I was going to ask how a force would occur but it dawned on me that R3 could be hit by a pitch that was ball 4, probably more likely than being hit by a strike as covered in 7-11-s. So last year a non stealing R1 could advance on a force. This year he advances on the rule.