Ball stuck inside sleeve/possession/force out

[Guest Sully]

Runner on 1st, 1 out

Chopper up the middle. The ball bounces up the 2nd baseman's fielding glove arm and into his sleeve.

Second baseman steps on 2nd, holding onto the ball through his shirt, and pinning it to his shoulder...

...for the fielders choice force at 2nd?

Runner on First, 2 Out?

[ErichKeane]

Not an out, a lodged ball is an immediate dead ball, and everyone gets 1 base at this point, so 1st and 2nd, 1 out. I'm sure about the former, not quite sure about the award.

[maven]

16 minutes ago, Guest Sully said:

Second baseman steps on 2nd, holding onto the ball through his shirt, and pinning it to his shoulder...

...for the fielders choice force at 2nd?

No: the reason is that F4's action does not satisfy the definition of a TAG. Specifically, he does not have secure possession of the ball in hand or glove when he touches the base.

So, yes, lodged ball, advance all runners.

[Senor Azul]

Sully, we need to know what was the rule set your game was played under. For example, in high school ball its rule 5-1-1f-5 tells us that a fair batted ball that lodges in a player’s uniform is immediately dead. Then in rule 8-3-3c it tells us that each runner is awarded two bases when the ball goes out of play (lodges).

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

Sully, we need to know what was the rule set your game was played under. For example, in high school ball its rule 5-1-1f-5 tells us that a fair batted ball that lodges in a player’s uniform is immediately dead. Then in rule 8-3-3c it tells us that each runner is awarded two bases when the ball goes out of play (lodges).

That’s one rule I dread ever having to call in a high school game. Especially if it’s a big game in an important spot. I think it would be tough to get out of there with a bench restriction or less…. And probably an escort to my car post game. 

[noumpere]

NCAA awards at umpire's discretion.-- at least it did when I last umpired.  8-3-3l

[Senor Azul]

Well, Mr. Richvee, I hope the NCAA and OBR rulings on this question are more to your liking. As you can see, contrary to what has been posted earlier, the award of bases in college and pro ball is not automatic—it’s umpire discretion.

2021-2022 NCAA rule 8-3

l. If a fair batted or thrown ball becomes lodged in a player’s uniform, the ball shall be declared dead and bases awarded at the umpire’s discretion;

OBR has a rule that covers the situation where a pitched ball becomes lodged but relies on interpretation for batted and thrown balls. Here’s what is written in the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.1, p. 51):

If a batted or thrown ball inadvertently goes inside a player’s or coach’s uniform, lodges in the catcher’s face mask or paraphernalia, or is intentionally placed inside a player’s uniform (e.g., in a pants pocket), the umpire shall call “Time.” The umpire will, using common sense and fair play, place all runners in such a manner that will nullify the action of the ball going out of play…Any outs recorded prior to the ball going into the player’s or coach’s uniform (or lodges in the catcher’s mask or paraphernalia) will stand.

[Richvee]

@Senor Azul  exactly why I said in a high school game. Not only is it a rules difference, the HS rule is a $*%t storm waiting to happen. 
 

[Senor Azul]

OK, Mr. Richvee, you have piqued my curiosity. Have you actually seen or heard of a “$*%t storm” happening when this rule was invoked? I can tell you for a fact that the rule has been in the book at least since 1993—possibly as early as 1983. I know because it is not in my 1982 rule book but it is there in the 1993—I don’t have any of the editions between those years. So going with 1993 that makes 29 years—has there been to your knowledge (or to any of the others’ knowledge who Liked your rants—Catch18, Jay R., and mw94) any problems with this rule in the last 29 years?

[Catch18]

OK, Mr. Richvee, you have piqued my curiosity. Have you actually seen or heard of a “$*%t storm” happening when this rule was invoked? I can tell you for a fact that the rule has been in the book at least since 1993—possibly as early as 1983. I know because it is not in my 1982 rule book but it is there in the 1993—I don’t have any of the editions between those years. So going with 1993 that makes 29 years—has there been to your knowledge (or to any of the others’ knowledge who Liked your rants—Catch18, Jay R., and mw94) any problems with this rule in the last 29 years?

Has there been to your knowledge no problems with this rule in the last 29 years?

I still have to explain to varsity coaches balls OOP aren’t 1+1 phantom beer league softball base awards…..yet here we are. Chill bro.

[Richvee]

6 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

OK, Mr. Richvee, you have piqued my curiosity. Have you actually seen or heard of a “$*%t storm” happening when this rule was invoked? I can tell you for a fact that the rule has been in the book at least since 1993—possibly as early as 1983. I know because it is not in my 1982 rule book but it is there in the 1993—I don’t have any of the editions between those years. So going with 1993 that makes 29 years—has there been to your knowledge (or to any of the others’ knowledge who Liked your rants—Catch18, Jay R., and mw94) any problems with this rule in the last 29 years?

It's called "potential" Mr Azul. I guarantee you 75% of HS coached don't now this rule. And if it's called on their team in the bottom on the 7th, up one, two outs with the bases loaded, and as in the OP, F4 steps on 2B, and you say "time" that's a lodged ball, You R3 score, YouR2 score"......there WILL be a $*%tstorm.  

[Thunderheads]

7 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

OK, Mr. Richvee, you have piqued my curiosity. Have you actually seen or heard of a “$*%t storm” happening when this rule was invoked? I can tell you for a fact that the rule has been in the book at least since 1993—possibly as early as 1983. I know because it is not in my 1982 rule book but it is there in the 1993—I don’t have any of the editions between those years. So going with 1993 that makes 29 years—has there been to your knowledge (or to any of the others’ knowledge who Liked your rants—Catch18, Jay R., and mw94) any problems with this rule in the last 29 years?

Now, ...that's funny!  SINCE WHEN does a rule being in the rulebook for a long time mean that coaches are aware of such rule?   Answer: Never  

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

It's called "potential" Mr Azul. I guarantee you 75% of HS coached don't now this rule. And if it's called on their team in the bottom on the 7th, up one, two outs with the bases loaded, and as in the OP, F4 steps on 2B, and you say "time" that's a lodged ball, You R3 score, YouR2 score"......there WILL be a $*%tstorm.  

I couldn't agree with this any more!  Nightmare!  Ejections, and much more will follow!