Balk Call

[Guest Coach CB]

NFHS - Indiana:

 

Last night my RHP was called for a balk with a runner on third and second base.  He uses the "Mike Clevinger"-esque tapping of his front foot multiple times before officially coming set (has done it all-season long, every game).

 

The field umpire declared a balk because for that pitch, he claimed his front foot continued to gain ground towards 3B in comparison to how he's been coming set all game.  I specifically asked the field umpire if he believed it was a situation where he determined my pitcher was trying to deceive the base runner (my pitcher did not pick, he pitched the ball) to which the ump claimed yes -- because he said pitchers do not need to come set to pick to third..

 

Now I am aware of disengaging from the rubber and the jump picks that are legal towards 1B and 2B for RHP's, but while using the inside move towards 2B - or in this case, using the feint-pitch-step-over move towards 3B (still legal in Indiana), does the pitcher need to come set?  Alternatively, do LHP's need to come set to pick straight over to 1B?

 

Poised an interesting thought, would've been nice for a warning if he thought my pitcher was trying to be deceptive -- nonetheless, the home plate umpire agreed with the decision so the game continued on. Just wondering for the official ruling, thanks!

[noumpere]

A Pitcher does NOT need to come set before throwing (or feinting, where allowed) to a base.

 

And, depending on the level and local rules, there's no "balk warning."  A pitcher might get cautioned that he's close to violating one of the balk rules, but if he's already violated it....

 

I won't comment on the balk itself because they are notoriously difficult to describe and I wasn't there to see it.

 

 

[Thunderheads]

Continued to gain ground while coming set? Doesn't sound like a balk to me?

And ... 'deceiving a runner' is what pitchers try to do.  This term needs to be removed from any rulebook or discussion.  A pitcher's moves are either legal, or illegal.  Based on what you described, I don't see anything illegal here.   Sit tight, more will come on here to answer

[Guest Coach CB]

5 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Continued to gain ground while coming set?

The claim was as he was coming set, his front foot continued to step and inch towards 3B in comparison to how he had been coming set all game (can't agree nor disagree, I'm in the 1B dugout).  And his reasoning of: you don't need to come set to feint-pick towards 3B, was why he declared a balk.

 

While engaged on the rubber, I have never seen someone pick towards 3B WITHOUT coming set  (doesn't seem logically effective), but curious on that ruling and how it would relate towards the front foot tapping RHP's

[Thunderheads]

3 minutes ago, Guest Coach CB said:

The claim was as he was coming set, his front foot continued to step and inch towards 3B in comparison to how he had been coming set all game (can't agree nor disagree, I'm in the 1B dugout).  And his reasoning of: you don't need to come set to feint-pick towards 3B, was why he declared a balk.

 

While engaged on the rubber, I have never seen someone pick towards 3B WITHOUT coming set  (doesn't seem logically effective), but curious on that ruling and how it would relate towards the front foot tapping RHP's

yeah, still don't see a balk .......

[Guest Coach CB]

17 minutes ago, noumpere said:

A Pitcher does NOT need to come set before throwing (or feinting, where allowed) to a base.

Different play - same situation:

 

When a runner on 3B attempts to steal home, often times a balk is called when a pitcher rushes through the stretch.  In Indiana (where the feint-pick to 3B is legal), would it NOT be a balk if the pitcher quickly feint picks to 3B to "disengage from the rubber" (without coming set) and then throws home?

[noumpere]

Just now, Guest Coach CB said:

Different play - same situation:

 

When a runner on 3B attempts to steal home, often times a balk is called when a pitcher rushes through the stretch.  In Indiana (where the feint-pick to 3B is legal), would it NOT be a balk if the pitcher quickly feint picks to 3B to "disengage from the rubber" (without coming set) and then throws home?

Yes, it would NOT be a balk.

F1 can also just disengage (step back with the pivot foot, placing it on the ground behind the rubber) and then throw home

[Tborze]

There is a rules myth that a pitcher must use the same motion on every pitch.  It is just that, a myth!

 I too see nothing illegal here. 

[SH0102]

Actually just had this a couple days ago (albeit a college game but same principle).

r1 only, I am BU, lefty pitcher.  Begins motion to come set and without coming to a discernible pause, lifted his leg…if he had delivered a pitch, I’d have called a balk for no pause, but he lifted and stepped and threw to 1st, so whole lot of nothing.

[kylehutson]

20 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Actually just had this a couple days ago (albeit a college game but same principle).

r1 only, I am BU, lefty pitcher.  Begins motion to come set and without coming to a discernible pause, lifted his leg…if he had delivered a pitch, I’d have called a balk for no pause, but he lifted and stepped and threw to 1st, so whole lot of nothing.

In my earlier days, I had one of those. No set.

Me (pointing): "That's! ..."

(pitcher throws to first)

Me: "... a really good move"

[aaluck]

38 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

In my earlier days, I had one of those. No set.

Me (pointing): "That's! ..."

(pitcher throws to first)

Me: "... a really good move"

Glad to hear I'm not the only one to do that.  Since then I am very slow with my call, great lesson learned.  It still, to this day, requires me to 'hold myself back'.

[KenBAZ]

Sounds like in the umpire's judgment, F1 stepped toward 3rd and threw to the plate. By rule, that is a balk.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Rich Ives]

10 hours ago, KenBAZ said:

Sounds like in the umpire's judgment, F1 stepped toward 3rd and threw to the plate. By rule, that is a balk.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Only matter is it's the delivery. No such restriction while coming set.

[Senor Azul]

Since this thread is about a FED question there actually is an interpretation that would support Mr. KenBAZ. Here it is from the 2016 BRD (section 397, pp. 265-266):

Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  A pitcher may adopt the open stance, but when he comes to his stop, he must remain in that stance. PENALTY:  Balk.

Note 375:  The FED interpretation is: start closed, end closed; start open, end open. Be clear on one point of FED OI 4-17-397: If the pitcher is in the open position, he may not swing his shoulders to check a runner during his stretch. In other words, he may not further “open” his open stance.

OI 417-397:  Hopkins:  The pitcher may not turn his shoulders “during or after the stretch.”

 

So it seems to me that FED considers a pitcher who starts in a closed set position i.e., a square or even position to the plate and then finishes his stretch in an open stance toward a base he has violated the rule of turning his shoulders toward a base.