New Mechanic w/ Runner on 2b?

[Astrosdawg07]

I was told the other night that with a runner at 2b only the PU stays home and doesn't come up the line towards third. Is this true; if so are you guys using this mechanic?

[LMSANS]

I was told the other night that with a runner at 2b only the PU stays home and doesn't come up the line towards third. Is this true; if so are you guys using this mechanic?

This is true. On a base hit, there is the likelihood of a play at home;on a fly ball in the V, BU has the catch, tag and any play at third. On a ball hit to the infied, BU has the play at 1B and any 2nd play at 3rd.

[jim knight]

This is great... Larry and I agree on something.

PU stays home with runner on second base with a few exceptions... BU has play at first and play at third if runner trys to advance.

[LMSANS]

This is great... Larry and I agree on something.

PU stays home with runner on second base with a few exceptions... BU has play at first and play at third if runner trys to advance.

That's 2 in a row.

[Astrosdawg07]

See I would still rather come up the line in case of a banger at third. Normally you can read that ball and what will present itself, and if need be I can always get back home.

[Umpire in Chief]

See I would still rather come up the line in case of a banger at third. Normally you can read that ball and what will present itself, and if need be I can always get back home.

This is a dangerous situation. At the JV & V level these guys are fast. Even on the delay R2 will be at third before the PU could get in good position to make the call. BU can get better distance and angle for the play.

It's a tough play and the BU must not over commit to first and still remember the play behind him. Add to that if there's an over throw at third and the play comes home neither BU or PU will be able to get in good position for a play at the plate.

I had/have a tough time on plays where I have no responsibility and sticking at home I feel I need to be in motion and there a few times like this when you responsibilities keep you at home.

Fight the urge and stay home.

[widac]

See I would still rather come up the line in case of a banger at third. Normally you can read that ball and what will present itself, and if need be I can always get back home.

In what situation do you think this is a good idea?

[Astrosdawg07]

In what situation do you think this is a good idea?

Balls hit to left field where there could be a play at 3b.

[batterup]

As PU in this situation, I will come up the line and watch the play develop.

If we have a fly ball and a possible tag up situation at third, I'll move up the line, read the play, and take the tag up at third if this develops. As I come into position, I let my BU know with "I have third IF he tags". This is an advance mechanic.

And, on a slow developing play in the infield where the first play goes to first base, I will come up the line and take the second play at third. Again, you must read the situation and the play BEFORE you commit.

[scobes7]

No way will I come up the line to take that slow developing play at third...these kids are like lightning....if third gets overthrown just slightly, that kid rounding third is even with you before you know it and you will be trailing the play to home plate if a throw is made.....stay home...

[noumpere]

Balls hit to left field where there could be a play at 3b.

Base hits to left with R2 and there's a banger at third and PU is in a better position than BU? I must be missing something.

On the OP: The "pro" mechanic has gone back and forth over the years on whether BU has the second play in the infield. First, one way is "standard" and the other is "advanced." Then, the other is "standard" and the first is "advanced." So, do whatever is standard in your area so you have one (and not two or zero) umpires making the call.

The CCA mechanic gives this call to BU. PU rotates to third only on: R1only and a hit to the outfied; R1and R3 and a hit to the outfield; R1 and R2 and a caught fly not on / near the RF line.

[Umpire in Chief]

I got gigged on an eval last fall where we had nobody aboard, and a trouble ball hit down the LF line. I busted ass down the line b/c this was trouble in terms of both fair/foul and hr or not. I got 70+ feet up the line to point it fair. I then holler to my partner, I'll take 3rd if he comes. And sure enough here comes the ball and the runner we have a great play at third and get the out. I was proud of myself and thought we looked really good in the play. Back at the car I was told that while we looked good, had a great call, and everything worked well for us in that situation, there are too many uncertainties which could have happened and my responsibility was to make my call on the ball and then to bust back to home as well as I got there in the first place. I have to agree with his reasoning.

There are many plays we can take as umpires, but we need to also know there are plays we shouldn't take.

[batterup]

I got gigged on an eval last fall where we had nobody aboard, and a trouble ball hit down the LF line. I busted ass down the line b/c this was trouble in terms of both fair/foul and hr or not. I got 70+ feet up the line to point it fair. I then holler to my partner, I'll take 3rd if he comes. And sure enough here comes the ball and the runner we have a great play at third and get the out. I was proud of myself and thought we looked really good in the play. Back at the car I was told that while we looked good, had a great call, and everything worked well for us in that situation, there are too many uncertainties which could have happened and my responsibility was to make my call on the ball and then to bust back to home as well as I got there in the first place. I have to agree with his reasoning.

There are many plays we can take as umpires, but we need to also know there are plays we shouldn't take.

True - on a naked triple, the BU has it all the way.

Taking a play at third with multiple runners ALWAYS depends on the play itself. Remember to pause, read and react. If you over commit to early, and then have a non-quality throw, then you are at fault.

Let the play develop, read the throw, and then step into position. It's all about timing.

[widac]

Balls hit to left field where there could be a play at 3b.

Why wouldn't the BU get this?

[willv28]

The only time I know I'm very ready to bust up there is when there's R1 and fly to outfield.

[Astrosdawg07]

Why wouldn't the BU get this?

What if the OF fakes a throw to third, R2/BR falls for it goes for 2nd. I believe if U1/HPU reads the play he can get back home if need be. I'm extremely fast not 2 brag, but I did run track in HS and I'm only in my 20's, I feel like I know I have the speed to get back home if needed. Trust me, I can outrun almost if not all the runners out there.

[batterup]

What if the OF fakes a throw to third, R2/BR falls for it goes for 2nd. I believe if U1/HPU reads the play he can get back home if need be. I'm extremely fast not 2 brag, but I did run track in HS and I'm only in my 20's, I feel like I know I have the speed to get back home if needed. Trust me, I can outrun almost if not all the runners out there.

Bingo! The key is reading the play, not assuming anything. And, hey, I'm 43 and I can still out run 'em!

[widac]

What if the OF fakes a throw to third, R2/BR falls for it goes for 2nd. I believe if U1/HPU reads the play he can get back home if need be. I'm extremely fast not 2 brag, but I did run track in HS and I'm only in my 20's, I feel like I know I have the speed to get back home if needed. Trust me, I can outrun almost if not all the runners out there.

I don't think I'm seeing what your saying. With a runner on 2nd and I am the BU and there is a fly ball to the OF and the runner tags I have the following responsibilities:

*catch/no-catch (unless it's a fair/foul sitch)

*I have to see if the runner leaves early

* I have the runner going into 3rd

*I have the runner if he goes back into 2nd

The PU has:

*Fair/foul, catch/no-catch

*ball OOP and HP if there is an overthrow at 3rd

It doesn't make any sense to me for the PU to go to 3rd on this play. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[mazzamouth]

No way will I come up the line to take that slow developing play at third...these kids are like lightning....if third gets overthrown just slightly, that kid rounding third is even with you before you know it and you will be trailing the play to home plate if a throw is made.....stay home...

no way that is the wrong mechanic... the PU should go about 10-15 feet up the 1st base line ( this is on a play in the infield) and help the BU with a Pull foot, swipe tag. then toward home. We do this in college ball, and most of those guys are faster that HS kids. I had a few plays this weekend where I was in "C" ground ball hit to the 3rdbaseman who throws to 1st and then the runner who was on 2nd ran to 3rd all I did was stay in the working area go call the out at 1st and then go towards 3rd and call a out or safe. It is really easy to do.

[mazzamouth]

What if the OF fakes a throw to third, R2/BR falls for it goes for 2nd. I believe if U1/HPU reads the play he can get back home if need be. I'm extremely fast not 2 brag, but I did run track in HS and I'm only in my 20's, I feel like I know I have the speed to get back home if needed. Trust me, I can outrun almost if not all the runners out there.

here is what the PU does on this play... watch... the BU has the tag and catch no catch if the ball is in his area..then the BU would take the runner into 3rd. do you guys know they have a Mechanics book out there?..... Do i need to put the link down for you.

[MCLEOD36]

Warren.

Now dont laugh, beginning of season in a practice game, did the same thing, troubled ball to left, I come up the line, kid rounding 2nd, partner stumbles, I yell "I got three", call the kid out. One of the evaluators that was there, was going dont ever take three, I go well I was there partner stumbled, he goes that is his mistake..... I go, well, I got his back.

[mstaylor]

That's when you very selective in taking any advice from him. When weird tings happen you have to go to "fill a hole" mechanics. when an evaluator said something that stupid, smile and say I see your point.

I saw a BU in a D1 college trip and roll in right field. The PU was already coming out to cover the runner so he took it all.

[umpie]

As PU in this situation, I will come up the line and watch the play develop.

If we have a fly ball and a possible tag up situation at third, I'll move up the line, read the play, and take the tag up at third if this develops. As I come into position, I let my BU know with "I have third IF he tags". This is an advance mechanic.

And, on a slow developing play in the infield where the first play goes to first base, I will come up the line and take the second play at third. Again, you must read the situation and the play BEFORE you commit.

umpires have to talk to each other with runners on and balls hit to outfield and doesn't BU have the BR to third in 2 man system? If the PU does come up the line to 3rd. (in 2 man system ) I would rotate to Home Plate.

Edited June 5, 2009 by umpie

[willv28]

umpires have to talk to each other with runners on and balls hit to outfield and doesn't BU have the BR to third in 2 man system? If the PU does come up the line to 3rd. (in 2 man system ) I would rotate to Home Plate.

It depends. I think in some sets the PU does get it. But in LL we communicate it. The PU will take the runner into 3rd, but only on R1 usually. You would go "Bill, I got 3rd if he comes!" or something like that. But it's more likely there will be a play at the plate for an odd reason so you might have to communicate you're backing off.

[mstaylor]

On a clean triple the BU has him all the way to third. The only mechanics manual that was different was NFHS but they changed this year to match other manuals. Now if something weird happens and the PU has to cover for some reason, BU trips, pulls a hamstring, the PU still will have the plate. The BU SHOULD NOT cover home. There is only one instance where that may happen and that is BU goes out on a ball to right, PU has runner all the way. The BU will try to cover home if possible.