Foul Tip: Rule Change 2020 OBR

[johnnyg08]

2020 FOUL TIP: A batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher and it legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught, and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. 

2019 FOUL TIP: A batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

 

 

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

2020 FOUL TIP: A batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher and it legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught, and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. 

2019 FOUL TIP: A batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

 

 

Uh, where have you been? Covered once or twice here. NCAA changing also. 
But 2020 OBR not yet available on MLB.com. But reliable sources have the change as certain. 

[johnnyg08]

8 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Uh, where have you been? Covered once or twice here. NCAA changing also. 
But 2020 OBR not yet available on MLB.com. But reliable sources have the change as certain. 

I haven't left my mom's basement since mid March.

[Thunderheads]

9 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Uh, where have you been? Covered once or twice here. NCAA changing also. 
But 2020 OBR not yet available on MLB.com. But reliable sources have the change as certain. 

Never saw this either.  Had FED adopted this also?

[MadMax]

40 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Never saw this either.  Had FED adopted this also?

It’s Fed... think they’re going to be Johnny-on-the-spot on this? Still haven’t disallowed a fake throw by F1 to 3rd!

[johnnyg08]

47 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Never saw this either.  Had FED adopted this also?

I don't think so

[ArchAngel72]

Question on the change

 

Does this mean if it hits the bat then the catchers glove or hand and then bumps his mask and then back into his glove or hand and he controls it from there it is a foul tip strike?

just trying to wrap my head around the change and make sure I am clear on it.

[johnnyg08]

9 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Question on the change

 

Does this mean if it hits the bat then the catchers glove or hand and then bumps his mask and then back into his glove or hand and he controls it from there it is a foul tip strike?

just trying to wrap my head around the change and make sure I am clear on it.

Yes. Correct.

[Thunderheads]

4 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Yes. Correct.

wait, wait ......... the 2020 is the same rule, just the wording is less?

[MadMax]

8 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Does this mean if it hits the bat then the catchers glove or hand and then bumps his mask and then back into his glove or hand and he controls it from there it is a foul tip strike?

By what you describe – all of this sequence, starting with "bat, then catcher's mitt or hand" – has been the defining characteristic of a Foul Tip for quite some time. As long as the batted ball hit the mitt or hand of F2 "sharp and direct", it could potentially roll up his arm and he could secure it for a Foul Tip Strike (which would remain Live and/or be a valid caught 3rd strike, instead of a Foul Ball).

What the 2020 Edition implies is that if a batted ball deflects "sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher and it is legally caught", then it qualifies as Foul Tip Strike... meaning that if it deflects off his CP, his mask, his knee guard, embeds in his groin... anything that keeps it off the ground or touching the umpire... it qualifies as a catch, and a Foul Tip Strike.

[johnnyg08]

7 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

wait, wait ......... the 2020 is the same rule, just the wording is less?

It's not the same. 

The must hit the glove or hand first is no longer a requirement. 

[Thunderheads]

9 minutes ago, MadMax said:

By what you describe – all of this sequence, starting with "bat, then catcher's mitt or hand" – has been the defining characteristic of a Foul Tip for quite some time. As long as the batted ball hit the mitt or hand of F2 "sharp and direct", it could potentially roll up his arm and he could secure it for a Foul Tip Strike (which would remain Live and/or be a valid caught 3rd strike, instead of a Foul Ball).

What the 2020 Edition implies is that if a batted ball deflects "sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher and it is legally caught", then it qualifies as Foul Tip Strike... meaning that if it deflects off his CP, his mask, his knee guard, embeds in his groin... anything that keeps it off the ground or touching the umpire... it qualifies as a catch, and a Foul Tip Strike.

So 2020 is saying ....direct back to the catcher (regardless of bobble or what it hits first) .... it's a catch/live, etc ... yes?

ON EDIT:  I got it, I got it!  

 

[johnnyg08]

2 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

So 2020 is saying ....direct back to the catcher (regardless of bobble or what it hits first) .... it's a catch/live, etc ... yes?

 

Correct. Mask, chest protector, etc...they're treating it like any other batted ball in flight..and the requirements of a catch. 

[noumpere]

41 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Question on the change

 

Does this mean if it hits the bat then the catchers glove or hand and then bumps his mask and then back into his glove or hand and he controls it from there it is a foul tip strike?

just trying to wrap my head around the change and make sure I am clear on it.

That was always* the rule.

 

* -- Sr. Azul will be along shortly to tell you that I am wrong to use the term "always" with some cites to show that in 1859 there were no foul tips, that the rule was added in 1906 but didn't include gloves because catcher's didn't wear them,  that it was an out for one year only in 1908, then became a foul ball fro two years before essentially the curretntrule was adopted in 1911.  OR, something like that.

[Willis]

Does the catcher have to be the one to complete the catch, or can it be any fielder?  For example, batter shows bunt, F5 charges, ball tips bat, hits catchers mask, deflects up into the air where F5 makes a diving catch--add one to the strike count and allow any runners that advanced safely to stay on their advance bases?

[johnnyg08]

I haven't double checked...but I didn't see that part of the rule changed..(so...not exactly the same as a catch for the other positions) 

From what I know right now...F2 would still need to secure possession of the baseball for it to be a foul tip vs a foul ball. 

 

 

[noumpere]

40 minutes ago, Willis said:

Does the catcher have to be the one to complete the catch, or can it be any fielder?  For example, batter shows bunt, F5 charges, ball tips bat, hits catchers mask, deflects up into the air where F5 makes a diving catch--add one to the strike count and allow any runners that advanced safely to stay on their advance bases?

Catcher.  FED used to have a rule that "any fielder" could catch it, but that was changed several (8?) years ago.

[johnnyg08]

Just now, noumpere said:

Catcher.  FED used to have a rule that "any fielder" could catch it, but that was changed several (8?) years ago.

That sounds right. 

[Jimurray]

Quote

@Richvee first picked up on the change in May and it was confirmed in this post: 

 

 

NCAA was confirmed changed in a UTD facebook  post also.

[johnnyg08]

This is the first thread in this forum about the rule change.

I would have never looked in "Ask the Umpire" then inside of the "Tipped Ball" thread to see or notice that.

Which is weird...I've had a lot of extra time in my mom's basement...I should have seen every post on the  Internet regarding 2020 OBR rule changes considering the website still has the 2019 book published.

 

[ArchAngel72]

Now see I was told by someone at a class that a ball bouncing off the CP and back into the glove would NOT be a foul tip strike out. It had to go direct to the glove.  This is why I ask.. 

[johnnyg08]

2 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

No see I was told by someone at a class that a ball bouncing off the CP and back into the glove would NOT be a foul tip strike out. It had to go direct to the glove.  This is why I ask.. 

Yep...under the old rule that would be true. In 2020 & going forward, we're going to have a foul tip by rule. 

[johnnyg08]

5 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Never saw this either.  Had FED adopted this also?

FED rule is the same as it's always been...(well, maybe not ALWAYS)...but you get the point.

[Tborze]

BOUT TIME!

[Richvee]

12 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Never saw this either.  Had FED adopted this also?

Look for FED to adopt this around 2030... a year or two after they outlaw the feint to third.