Hit by pitch or foul ball

[Guest Tshu]

What's the ruling when a pitched ball hits the batters fingers and bat simultaneously in the bunting position and the  batter did not offer at the pitch?

[Jimurray]

29 minutes ago, Guest Tshu said:

What's the ruling when a pitched ball hits the batters fingers and bat simultaneously in the bunting position and the  batter did not offer at the pitch?

Simultaneous foul ball and hit by pitch. Pick one and justify with tie goes to the umpire. 

[beerguy55]

11 hours ago, Guest Tshu said:

What's the ruling when a pitched ball hits the batters fingers and bat simultaneously in the bunting position and the  batter did not offer at the pitch?

Pick one - no human (nor, at this time, camera) can determine at the molecular level if the contact with the hand and bat was indeed simultaneous.

Make sure you can justify it and be confident about your ruling.  "Usually", but there are exceptions, it will be easier to justify the HBP call, with the batter writhing in pain, and say the ball hit the hands first.

Give the benefit of doubt to the batter...unless, of course, the pitch was in the strike zone.

 

Edit: Hosmer got the double whammy - broken finger, and ruled it hit the bat first for strike three....btw - wtf is he bunting at all in the first inning, let alone with two strikes?!?!?!?!

[noumpere]

It hit the hands first.

[ArchAngel72]

I am wondering how can the batter not be making an attempt to bunt and it hits the batter on his hand as he is holding the bat out?

Did he turn and stood there holding the bat and the pitcher got lucky enough to hit the bat?

If his hands were in the strike zone  

 

Strike

I'm gonna say if the ball actually hit the bat and he/she stood there holding it in the zone that was an attempt,  being that if they did foul it off not trying its still a foul ball

If it was out of the zone Time- take your base

 

If he pulled back in and attempt to get out of the way  Time- take your base

 

 

 

[noumpere]

22 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

I am wondering how can the batter not be making an attempt to bunt and it hits the batter on his hand as he is holding the bat out?

Did he turn and stood there holding the bat and the pitcher got lucky enough to hit the bat?

If his hands were in the strike zone 

Just holding the bat in the zone is NOT an attempt, in baseball (I think I've read that it is an attempt in softball -- but the next softball game I officiate will be the first)

[maven]

30 minutes ago, noumpere said:

(I think I've read that it is an attempt in softball -- but the next softball game I officiate will be the first)

I think I've read the same.

I've officiated ONE softball game (assigner had a cancellation, I had no baseball game, and the school did not belong to the state association so I needed no license).

I'm glad I did. I know for certain that I chose the right sport to work.

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Just holding the bat in the zone is NOT an attempt, in baseball (I think I've read that it is an attempt in softball -- but the next softball game I officiate will be the first)

Yep Holding it in the zone is not in baseball an attempt at the ball must be made.  However like I said if it hits the bat I would consider it an attempt as if it goes fair its live if it goes foul its a foul ball is it not?

IE

if it hits his hand and his hand is in the strike zone its still a strike.

If it hits his hand and his hand IS not in the strike zone its Time - take your base

 

[ArchAngel72]

Ok a little refine ment

 

If the ball hit the batter and his hand was in the strike zone - Strike

If the batter did not make an attempt to avoid getting hit and his hand is not in the strike zone  - Dead ball  "Ball" ***

 

*** LL rules batter gets hit though.. Send them to 1st unless its some mean and tough 12 yr old who stood there to take it.. some 8-10 yr old may have just soiled himself wondering what the heck he is doing and froze. 

 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Just holding the bat in the zone is NOT an attempt, in baseball (I think I've read that it is an attempt in softball -- but the next softball game I officiate will be the first)

I've seen it called both ways.  I've seen it instructed by umps both ways.  And I've seen the instruction/guidance go back and forth within the same organization.

I do not believe it is defined by rule (I reserve the right to be wrong), and it is purely about guidance/instruction by rule set, governing body and organization.

It gets more frustrating when softball so commonly has running bunts/slaps - so if the batter never swings/offers, but runs from the back of the box to the front in a bunt formation, what's gonna be called - well that depends on the ump, the time of day, the weather, and how many chirps you hear from the closest cricket.

I learned early on to just tell the girls to pull their bat back.

[noumpere]

49 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Yep Holding it in the zone is not in baseball an attempt at the ball must be made.  However like I said if it hits the bat I would consider it an attempt as if it goes fair its live if it goes foul its a foul ball is it not?

IE

 

 

It's not an attempt, but it is a batted ball. ;)  So, yes, it's foul.  And, if it happened with two strikes, it's NOT an out (because it wasn't a bunt attempt)

[ArchAngel72]

27 minutes ago, noumpere said:

It's not an attempt, but it is a batted ball. So, yes, it's foul.  And, if it happened with two strikes, it's NOT an out (because it wasn't a bunt attempt)

Ahh Ok I see where you are going with that.  

 

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

@maven, why is baseball the right sport to work over softball?

~Dog

[noumpere]

26 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Ahh Ok I see where you are going with that.  

 

 

I should add that it's all dependent on the GIVEN "no attempt."  In a practical sense, if the bat is held in the zone and makes contact with the ball, I'm probably JUDGING it to be an attempt.

[maven]

5 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@maven, why is baseball the right sport to work over softball?

~Dog

I make that claim only for myself.