Batting OoO FED

[Mister B]

So, I've gotten burned by this a couple times this season. But when is the best time to appeal a Batting out of order. 

Game 1, wrong batter gets on base, next batter takes 2 pitches, now this one, I screwed up on, we appealed, which then just substituted the correct batter assuming the current count. 

Game 2, Batter who isn't in the lineup, makes 3rd out. Neither name or number are on the scrap of paper we were given. Next inning, batter steps into the box and we appeal. We are told that the batter is legal and that we should have appealed the last inning. Also, told that numbers don't matter, everything is based on last name, which of course we weren't given.

[beerguy55]

You appeal after the wrong batter has completed his at bat, before the next pitch is thrown.   (if the wrong batter gets out, then you can see if the next batter is wrong...or perhaps take an opportunity to make the guy who just got out bat again (if he's really weak)  - ie. Abe and Buck and Chuck are up...Buck bats, and gets out.  If Chuck is coming up that will be the correct order (once a pitch is thrown) If Buck really sucks, appeal...then Abe is called out, and then Buck has to bat again.   But if Abe is coming up, well, that's wrong...once a pitch is thrown, the Buck's at bat is proper and Chuck should be up...let Abe complete his at bat and see what happens.

At the end of an inning I BELIEVE it has to be done before the infield leaves fair territory.   But again, the guy got out.  Unless he's really bad and you want him to hit again (if that is the case), then see if the proper batter follows him next inning and get HIM out after he finishes his at bat.  (this only matters if it's out of order, otherwise you're talking about an unannounced sub)

[agdz59]

You always want appeal after the AB and before a pitch is thrown to the next batter. It's a free out. Just remember that the out is charged to who should have batted and the next batter will be the correct batter in the order. 

The only decision you  have is if the improper batter makes an out (or two or three) do you really want to appeal? That depends on who is coming to the plate now vs who would come to the plate if you appeal.  If you appeal, it will be whoever follows the correct batter.  If you don't, the batter coming to the plate becomes the correct batter after a pitch is delivered no matter where they are in the lineup.

Question: what if the batter coming up isn't on the lineup? If he is pitched to, does that force a substitution on the offense?

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Mister B said:

Game 2, Batter who isn't in the lineup, makes 3rd out. Neither name or number are on the scrap of paper we were given.

That isn't BOO, it's an unannounced sub.  The "unannounced" part doesn't matter; if the sub was otherwise legal, then this is legal.

And, while the names are "required" to be on the roster, there's no penalty if they are not (at least the last time I checked a few years ago).

[ArchAngel72]

Um  if you know its wrong you can appeal it right then before the at bat finishes.

[beerguy55]

20 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Um  if you know its wrong you can appeal it right then before the at bat finishes.

Not if you want the out.

[Lou B]

4 hours ago, agdz59 said:

...If you appeal, it will be whoever follows the correct batter.  If you don't, the batter coming to the plate becomes the correct batter after a pitch is delivered no matter where they are in the lineup...

If you appeal before the next pitch of play the proper batter is out and whoever follows the proper batter in the batting order is due up.

If you don't appeal the batter that follows the improper batter in the batting order is due up.

So, A, B, C D ...  C bats for A.  Proper Protest, A is out and B is up.  No Protest, D is up.

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, agdz59 said:

If you don't, the batter coming to the plate becomes the correct batter after a pitch is delivered no matter where they are in the lineup.

No...upon the next pitch the previous batter becomes "correct" and then whoever follows him in the lineup is supposed to be up.

Rinse and repeat.

The common one here is where two batters go in reverse.   So, ABCD.

B bats and reaches base...then A comes to the plate.  You appeal, B is out, and A bats.

But if you don't appeal - If A takes a pitch then B's at bat is validated, meaning C should be up.  So now, you can let A complete his at bat, and appeal before C takes a pitch.  (or, offense notices while A is still up, and corrects the error by putting C up to bat).   

And then it gets really cute, if A reaches base and you don't appeal - B is on second, A is on first, and C takes a pitch...which would make A correct, meaning B should be up (but he's on second base).  So, just appeal at the right time and take your free out.   There's only 27 of them.  I'll take the freebies.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

If you appeal before the next pitch of play the proper batter is out and whoever follows the proper batter in the batting order is due up.

If you don't appeal the batter that follows the improper batter in the batting order is due up.

So, A, B, C D ...  C bats for A.  Proper Protest, A is out and B is up.  No Protest, D is up.

With no appeal you can't say who is up. B might show up in the box or D might show up in the box depending on what the coach told the players what his batting order was. Maybe he told his 3 hitter he was moving him to leadoff and leadoff to 3 but used his old lineup at the plate conference.

[agdz59]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

No...upon the next pitch the previous batter becomes "correct" and then whoever follows him in the lineup is supposed to be up.

Rinse and repeat.

Yes, this is the correct way to say it.  Thank you for the correction.

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

The common one here is where two batters go in reverse.   So, ABCD.

B bats and reaches base...then A comes to the plate.  You appeal, B is out, and A bats.

This is not correct.  If B bats for A and the defense appeals, A is out, any runners are reset to TOP (if there was a hit),  and B bats again.

The rest is correct.  And to finish your thought when the proper batter is on base after an appeal:  you continue down the batting order until you find a batter NOT on base and they are the proper batter.

See?  Easy - peasy.  Anybody can umpire.

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

No...upon the next pitch the previous batter becomes "correct" and then whoever follows him in the lineup is supposed to be up.

Rinse and repeat.

The common one here is where two batters go in reverse.   So, ABCD.

B bats and reaches base...then A comes to the plate.  You appeal, B  A, who missed his turn at bat, is out, and A B bats.

But if you don't appeal - If A takes a pitch then B's at bat is validated, meaning C should be up.  So now, you can let A complete his at bat, and appeal before C takes a pitch.  (or, offense notices while A is still up, and corrects the error by putting C up to bat).   

And then it gets really cute, if A reaches base and you don't appeal - B is on second, A is on first, and C takes a pitch...which would make A correct, meaning B should be up (but he's on second base).  So, just appeal at the right time and take your free out.   There's only 27 of them.  I'll take the freebies.

Assuming the start of the game or the 9 batter making the last out, corrections in red

[Lou B]

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

With no appeal you can't say who is up...

If C batted for A and there was no BOOT Protest then D is due up next. 

If A or B or any other batter other than D comes up and a pitch is thrown at that point that batter is Batting Out Of Turn!

 

By the way, if, due to BOOT, the proper batter is on base when due up, you simply pass over him and go to the next batter not on base.

[Jimurray]

57 minutes ago, Lou B said:

If C batted for A and there was no BOOT Protest then D is due up next. 

If A or B or any other batter other than D comes up and a pitch is thrown at that point that batter is Batting Out Of Turn!

 

By the way, if, due to BOOT, the proper batter is on base when did up, you simply pass over him and go to the next batter not on base.

So offensive coach calls time and confesses that he batted out of order. He shows you his lineup card and asks you who is due up next. What do you tell him?

[Lou B]

I tell him I'm sorry but he needs to figure it out.  

If I tell him I am helping the offense and could be taking a potential out away from the defense. 

[Jimurray]

15 minutes ago, Lou B said:

I tell him I'm sorry but he needs to figure it out.  

If I tell him I am helping the offense and could be taking a potential out away from the defense. 

Being that the offensive coach is an avid reader of U-E he recalls this thread and sends up D. Unfortunately, the opposing coach is @beerguy55 who has been biding his time, since C made an out and wasn't on base, to see if he is going to face the #2 hitter B or the cleanup D. Seeing the cleanup in the box, he calls time before a pitch and swaps C's out for A's out, putting B as the proper batter and maybe gets thru the inning without seeing the cleanup

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

So offensive coach calls time and confesses that he batted out of order. He shows you his lineup card and asks you who is due up next. What do you tell him?

Coach ...

 

There once was a coach from Nantucket.

His line up was so screwed, he really did #### it.

The wrong batter came to the plate,

He caught a moment too late,

But now the ump just shrugged and said “Kirby Puckett.”

 

 

Besides, why did the coach bat?

[Jimurray]

32 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Coach ...

 

There once was a coach from Nantucket.

His line up was so screwed, he really did #### it.

The wrong batter came to the plate,

He caught a moment too late,

But now the ump just shrugged and said “Kirby Puckett.”

 

 

Besides, why did the coach bat?

What interesting MYTAB event happened with Kirby Pucket? If your question was not rhetorical, the coach didn’t bat out of order, his team did. But if you want to make it clear to others that might not get the context I would be happy to edit my post if you think someone would be confused. 

[The Man in Blue]

Just trying to be funny.  “Trying” is the operative word.  

 

Kirby Puckett?  I just needed a rhyme and he is (was) one of my all time favorites.  It’s nonsense since it was said we shouldn’t help the coach figure it out. 

[Jimurray]

24 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Just trying to be funny.  “Trying” is the operative word.  

 

Kirby Puckett?  I just needed a rhyme and he is (was) one of my all time favorites.  It’s nonsense since it was said we shouldn’t help the coach figure it out. 

On second thought that was funny. Why would a coach bat, in FED, nevermind out of order. But although most would know what I meant, good to be precise. 

[The Man in Blue]

It’s dangerous when a former English major becomes an umpire ...  

[beerguy55]

23 hours ago, agdz59 said:

This is not correct.  If B bats for A and the defense appeals, A is out, any runners are reset to TOP (if there was a hit),  and B bats again.

Yeah, I know.  I outsmarted myself and confused myself in the process.

[agdz59]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Yeah, I know.  I outsmarted myself and confused myself in the process.

Easy to do on this one!

[The Man in Blue]

Saw that happen in a high school softball game ... bases were loaded and the defensive coach gave the batter the intentional pass.  The offense didn’t figure it out what was happening until it was too late.  They thought they were getting a free run.  Appeal, out, everybody goes back.

[SavoyBG]

Here's the best way to handle this.

If you are sure that the wrong batter is batting you want to end the at bat as soon as possible, because  if there's a steal or a wild pitch or a passed ball, those runners don't have to go back after you appeal the batting out of order. Also, if the other team realizes that the wrong batter is up before the at bat is finished they can send up the correct batter.

In the major leagues you can drill the batter with the first pitch and then appeal the batting out of order. If you want to be a nice guy you can instead issue an intentional walk and then appeal the batting out of order.