Schutt XV-HDX Question Re: Attachments

[Rock Bottom]

I know the extended biceps are removable, but on mine the hard shell shoulder attachment is velcro attached too - or it came off, I'm not 100% sure.  Is that normal?  Thanks!

(Tried to attach pic but couldn't shrink it enough.)

[BT_Blue]

Are you talking about the gap protection plates or the actual shoulder plate?

[wolfe_man]

6 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

I know the extended biceps are removable, but on mine the hard shell shoulder attachment is velcro attached too - or it came off, I'm not 100% sure.  Is that normal?  Thanks!

(Tried to attach pic but couldn't shrink it enough.)

Yes, shoulders attach via Velcro as well.  I'm not sure why, but Schutt evidently thinks people want to move them in and out - or possibly off for softball? 

 

Several mods should be done to Schutt/Adams in my opinion. 

Here goes nothing:

1. move shoulder epaulets up about 2" (use bottom hole as guide)

2. upgrade harness (on Schutt, new Adams harness is actually pretty good)

3. get rid of the Velcro or move towards better thicker Velcro like Douglas (personal choice here as I know some like to remove it and wash often)  The Velcro seems to be very thin and cheap on both versions I've had of this CP.  It tends to start pulling the plastic away from the foam jacket easily and I feel like I'm constantly pushing it back in place (thankfully not during games though).

4. make shoulders permanently attached like Wilson/Douglas/All Star does (can be done with a carefully placed hole and Chicago Screw, but not sure why this needs so much adjustment as I've never felt any of the other CP's I had needed the shoulders moved out or in)

It's still a very good CP but these are some of the "little things" that irritate me with it.  I think I am one of those guys that seem to mod or try to improve everything I have now.

(Notice: The opinions here are solely my own and are not meant to offend anyone.)

[Rock Bottom]

6 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Are you talking about the gap protection plates or the actual shoulder plate?

The actual shoulder plate - it seems like the gap pad is permanent and the shoulder plate is velroed, which seems like it should be reversed if anything.  

[Rock Bottom]

28 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Yes, shoulders attach via Velcro as well.  I'm not sure why, but Schutt evidently thinks people want to move them in and out - or possibly off for softball? 

 

Several mods should be done to Schutt/Adams in my opinion. 

Here goes nothing:

1. move shoulder epaulets up about 2" (use bottom hole as guide)

2. upgrade harness (on Schutt, new Adams harness is actually pretty good)

3. get rid of the Velcro or move towards better thicker Velcro like Douglas (personal choice here as I know some like to remove it and wash often)  The Velcro seems to be very thin and cheap on both versions I've had of this CP.  It tends to start pulling the plastic away from the foam jacket easily and I feel like I'm constantly pushing it back in place (thankfully not during games though).

4. make shoulders permanently attached like Wilson/Douglas/All Star does (can be done with a carefully placed hole and Chicago Screw, but not sure why this needs so much adjustment as I've never felt any of the other CP's I had needed the shoulders moved out or in)

It's still a very good CP but these are some of the "little things" that irritate me with it.  I think I am one of those guys that seem to mod or try to improve everything I have now.

(Notice: The opinions here are solely my own and are not meant to offend anyone.)

Great info - thanks!  I agree the velco seems really cheap - which is what made me question if I had a defective sample, but I guess not.  I think I'll end up permanently attaching the shoulders - I don't see why I'd ever want to move those.

[MadMax]

6 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

The actual shoulder plate - it seems like the gap pad is permanent and the shoulder plate is velroed, which seems like it should be reversed if anything.  

That spherical shoulder cap plate thing is a shoulder pauldron (French), and while I don't like how Schutt used minimal velcro to make it re-positionable, I understand why they did it.

The "gap coverage" plate is an ailette (again, French), and in my and @wolfe_man's technical opinion, is set too low by default, so we kill the rivets, move it up by about an inch or so, and then re-secure it with Chicago Screws.

Once you figure out where you want the shoulder pauldrons to be, you can drill through the ABS of the shoulder arch plate and again use Chicago Screws to "permanently" attach them.

Another route to consider is what I'm likely to do soon... get a whole bunch of adhesive velcro stock from eBay. Of course, Velcro is the trade name, but it's also known as hook-&-loop. Over time and use, the velcro on the underside of the carapace plates gets dirty and loses its tackiness, and starts to separate from the plates. So, we can take out the old velcro and replace it with more and newer velcro.

[Rock Bottom]

On 2/28/2019 at 1:39 PM, MadMax said:

That spherical shoulder cap plate thing is a shoulder pauldron (French), and while I don't like how Schutt used minimal velcro to make it re-positionable, I understand why they did it.

The "gap coverage" plate is an ailette (again, French), and in my and @wolfe_man's technical opinion, is set too low by default, so we kill the rivets, move it up by about an inch or so, and then re-secure it with Chicago Screws.

Once you figure out where you want the shoulder pauldrons to be, you can drill through the ABS of the shoulder arch plate and again use Chicago Screws to "permanently" attach them.

Another route to consider is what I'm likely to do soon... get a whole bunch of adhesive velcro stock from eBay. Of course, Velcro is the trade name, but it's also known as hook-&-loop. Over time and use, the velcro on the underside of the carapace plates gets dirty and loses its tackiness, and starts to separate from the plates. So, we can take out the old velcro and replace it with more and newer velcro.

Great info - thanks @MadMax!

[midtnump]

On 2/27/2019 at 11:59 PM, Rock Bottom said:

I know the extended biceps are removable, but on mine the hard shell shoulder attachment is velcro attached too - or it came off, I'm not 100% sure.  Is that normal?  Thanks!

(Tried to attach pic but couldn't shrink it enough.)

Watch this ump attire 2 minute review of the cp, at about the 52-54 second mark he talks about the shoulder caps being adjustable. 

 

[MadMax]

@Rock Bottom, the way to properly adjust and fit this (and indeed, any) CP is to take all the attachments off. All of them, including the shoulder pauldrons (the caps you’re talking about). Even the harness! You should be left with the base carapace plates that are riveted together – the main chest plate, the lower torso plate, the two shoulder arch plates, and the two ailettes (gap protectors). The foam jacket should still be attached, but I’ve even gone so far as to remove that too, especially when I’m trying to get the best fit possible.

The next, most critical step I do is to locate the billow pad, and make sure it is centered between the shoulder arch plates and just above the chest plate. That billow pad is to be at, or just below, your Adam’s apple. Sometimes, these CPs ship flat(tened), and you’ll start to see the problem... the shoulder arch plates are supposed to be curved, or bent, to go up and over your shoulders. So, this is where I employ a heat gun (a hair dryer works) to heat up, soften, and then bend those arch plates. It’ll take a few passes – heat up, bend it, let it cool, try it on – until you get it closer to where it needs to be. Attach the harness, and now start trying it on while securing the harness. You want the harness snug enough to hold the CP to your body in two directions: over your shoulders, obviously, which is what we’ve been working on; the other is cylindrically, around your torso. If you have a narrow body frame, you may need to bend the chest plate slightly to create a better, trimmer fit. You may also realize that you don’t need the pectoral wings afterall.

Once I have the vest and carapace positioned where I want it, I have someone give me a hand on positioning the shoulder pauldrons. Use a pencil, a chalkstick, or a silver sharpie to position the pauldrons upon your shoulders, and then (have person) mark on the shoulder arch plates where the Velcro tabs of the pauldrons need to be anchored. Take the CP off, separate the vest from the carapace at those points, and stick the pauldrons in, lining up on those marks. Try it, adjust it, repeat until ideal.

At this point, you may recognize that the ailettes are too low (like @wolfe_man and I do), or you may favor them there. Then, you may want to reattach the pectoral wings. Last, you can finally determine, properly, whether or not you want the tummy-protectin’ abdomen extension. Far too many times, guys wear their CPs way too low so as to protect their tummy. The carapace itself, on any CP, is not intended for that. Add the extension, if you must.

At this point, too, if you want to reattach and use the bicep guards, you can. The real mind-blowing thing about this CP is, like the Force3 UnEquals and Champion P2xx’s, that once fully and properly adjusted to you, you can wear the same size shirt on the bases as you do the plate (unless you do college ball on TV, where you guys wear shirts 2-sizes tight and have the sleeves tailored)! No more wearing a muumuu on plate because you’re wearing a bulky, couch-esque CP!

This is not to be worn like a shop apron!

 

[catsbackr]

This is all really interesting information.  I bought an Adams.  The question is, do you really want to have to do all of this stuff to your CP?  I don't.  I have a new Adams, worn once, for sale.  

 

Oh, and the neck is way too narrow, too!

[MadMax]

@catsbackr, not everything is going to come, ready to wear, sized to you. I give Ump Attire some props, they actually ship the XV in a box ideally suited to keeping it curved. Other places flatten it out, and our fellow umpires naively wear it like a shop apron.

And the “neck too narrow” issue? I can fix that. Heck, I’ve had to fix that on a Platinum before!

[catsbackr]

Message me Max.  I'd love to keep trying it.

[Ump Man Do]

Hey 2nd year umpire here.  This site has been a wealth of information.  I just received my Schutt and have to say I didn't like it from the moment I put it on so going to return it.   I used a Champion last year and was very happy but always looking for something better...  Now that I am staying with the Champion (and going to order another one as a back up) I am going to upgrade the harness as I have seen suggested on many of the postings.  Ump-Attire has 3 different ones (WIlson, Force 3 and All Star).  Looking for any feedback and/or +/- on any of these harneesses.  And will it make that big a difference ?

[MadMax]

20 minutes ago, Ump Man Do said:

I didn't like it from the moment I put it on so going to return it.  

What didn’t you like about it? Why wasn’t it appealing to you (any longer)?

You’re not going to hurt my feelings, and I not going to actively try to change your mind... I just want to identify the factors that compelled you to these decisions.

There are actually 4 harnesses to consider: The ULFH “RayFlex” harness that started it all, the All-Star DeltaFlex, the Force3 NewFlex, and the Wilson About-Bloody-Time-Gettin’-to-It harness. As noted, @Razzer started this all, making a harness based off harnesses for hockey goalies, who require, as a matter of personal health, their chest protectors not to move. He has an entire background story, and it’s an enlightening account, I’m just paraphrasing for brevity. His harness is still the best of the lot, because he uses a particular combination of neoprene and elastic strap that is comfortable and durable. And, he’s even so kind as to personalize each one, if you’re so inclined.

All-Star recreated Ray’s design when they debuted the DeltaFlex. Initially made for catchers, it soon featured on their System 7 CPU4000 hardshell chest protector (which itself is one of the best on the market that no one seems to know about). Prior to getting to know and meeting Ray, I had a DeltaFlex due to its availability from Ump-Attire. Its lone drawbacks are that the upper rigging straps are static nylon (ie. not elastic), and rather short. It was designed to be used with the shape of the CPU4000.

Force3 discovered that one of the significant flaws in their revolutionary UnEqual chest protector is that if worn loose, the CP is then slapped against the wearer’s body when the CP takes an impact. Sure, the Kevlar is absorbing the energy from the ball, but the CP itself is being forced to move by that energy too... and if there’s a space, or gap, between the CP and the body, the CP will deform and slap against the body. Conventional strap-&-yoke harnesses just never get the CP tight enough, nor hold it there for very long, especially during activity.

So, instead of telling users to “make do”, “pound sand”, or buy someone else’s solution (as the big W is apt to do), Force3 introduced their harness. Like the DeltaFlex, it has static rigging straps, but they are notably longer. The torso straps are a very heavy, high-resistance elastic, and it comes equipped with two new side-release buckles to marry with the existing buckles on the UnEqual. If you get a Force3 NewFlex to use on a different CP, you can... simply remove those SR buckled and use the appropriate fasteners for your CP.

That brings me to the fourth harness... the late arrival to the party... the Wilson model.  It only took them just short of 20 years to finally do something about their woeful, pathetic strap-&-yoke harness on the Gold and Platinum CP’s causing umpires everywhere – including the MLB guys in The Show – to repeatedly, constantly shift their CPs around, readjust them on the fly, and to look like big, hulking brutes. The harness itself is good, and I suppose that if you’re unaware or ignorant to Ray’s and All-Star’s solutions (or think that Wilson is some divine-to-umpires sacrilege), the use of this harness on your Gold or Platinum is a significant improvement that will keep you safer.

The other thing to consider, in regards to the Force3 and Wilson harnesses, is that they are narrower than the other two. Some all-too-slim umpires may have a RayFlex or DeltaFlex bottom out, and the CP still isn’t snug despite the root of the straps right up against the buckles or clasps. For these slender guys, I do recommend a Force3 or Wilson harness...

... and some donuts.

[Ump Man Do]

Thanks for the info.  I wanted to like the Schutt.  This time last year when I was making my initial equipment purchase I had settled on the Schutt but then it was unavailable so I got the Champion.  While happy I still kep eyeing up the Schutt.  Then when UA put it on sale last week I bit.  Right out of the box it just felt "bigger".  I took off the bicep pads first.  When I put a shirt over it I looked like an old school lineman that is how big I thought I looked.  I messed around with the shoulder pads and took off the wings pads and made multiple adjustments with the harness but still didn't like the way it looked or fit.   So back to your post.  Looks like the Force 3 may be my best bet. 

[BCBrad]

Just want to second @MadMax great feedback on the XV. 

I have had my XV for just a little over 2 seasons and I love it. From the insights people have shared on this forum, I slapped a Delta-flex harness on it. If I were to get a backup cp I get an XV with probably a Ray-flex, to support my Canadian brother @Razzer. I actually have given an Ray-flex as a gift and it’s cool that you can customize it. I would do this in a heartbeat. 

As Madmax has said, this cp works great when you contour the frame (I forget what Max calls it, but I’m sure there is a chuckle in calling it a carcass because that doesn’t sound right) to your body. As Max has said, you have to form the shoulders to fit you so you protect your collarbones. 

Max makes a great point of using a heat gun. I have worn it around the house, and my body heat did get some form to it. A few hot summer games will get it formed to your body too. With a triangle harness tightened properly to get the cp tight to your body, it will form to you and give you first-rate protection at any level. 

[MadMax]

11 hours ago, BCBrad said:

but I’m sure there is a chuckle in calling it a carcass because that doesn’t sound right

Carapace. Same term used for the exoskeleton or hard shell of a beetle.

[midtnump]

@BCBrad and @MadMax, I have been considering replacing my 15" Champion with the  XV as the backup to my Douglas. With your gushing reviews you have just about convinced me to pull the trigger on one. 

[BT_Blue]

18 hours ago, MadMax said:

Carapace. Same term used for the exoskeleton or hard shell of a beetle.

Admit it... a very small part of you wants to call it a "carcass" from now on! Lol

[Razzer]

I just had a delivery of one

First impressions...not bad

Second look at it I would not play road hockey in this rig

I could snap this cheap plastic in a few bends

Velcro used is worse than the Dollar Stores sells

Foam Pad is ok so may use this pad as a project to thin out my Gold

Harness sucks

[catsbackr]

@Razzer,

 

Can you remove the Gold pads and replace them with the Adams/Schutt pads?  I'd love to see or hear the instructions on how to do this, I have both CP's.

[Razzer]

1 hour ago, catsbackr said:

@Razzer,

 

Can you remove the Gold pads and replace them with the Adams/Schutt pads?  I'd love to see or hear the instructions on how to do this, I have both CP's.

I am too busy to do this right now

Not hard to do once you line everything else up

 

 

[ofhs93]

On 3/9/2019 at 9:40 AM, MadMax said:

@catsbackr, not everything is going to come, ready to wear, sized to you. I give Ump Attire some props, they actually ship the XV in a box ideally suited to keeping it curved. Other places flatten it out, and our fellow umpires naively wear it like a shop apron.

And the “neck too narrow” issue? I can fix that. Heck, I’ve had to fix that on a Platinum before!

THIS! This is the exact reason I keep my CP in my gear bag....F3 shins on the bottom and the Schutt sort of wrapped around the the shins...top of the CP at the knee cap end of the shins. That leaves a perfect amount of space at the other end of the bag for me to put my bagged plate shoes. This setup keeps the CP curved in the same exact manner as it is when being worn....perhaps slightly *more* curved....which is just fine as it helps keep things properly snug once put on.

[ofhs93]

deleted

[Rock Bottom]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:30 AM, MadMax said:

[deleted]

There are actually 4 harnesses to consider: The ULFH “RayFlex” harness that started it all, the All-Star DeltaFlex, the Force3 NewFlex, and the Wilson About-Bloody-Time-Gettin’-to-It harness. As noted, @Razzer started this all, making a harness based off harnesses for hockey goalies, who require, as a matter of personal health, their chest protectors not to move. He has an entire background story, and it’s an enlightening account, I’m just paraphrasing for brevity. His harness is still the best of the lot, because he uses a particular combination of neoprene and elastic strap that is comfortable and durable. And, he’s even so kind as to personalize each one, if you’re so inclined.

[deleted but had to keep the great closing comment!:]

... and some donuts.

Seems like the RayFlex isn't available.  I was just doing some general browsing (not currently in the market) but I can't find the chest harness on the Umplife website, UmpAttire, or anywhere else new online. UmpLife just has the Delta-Flex on it.