Set Position

[RPW]

Can a RHP come Set with his left heal off the ground, and left knee slightly bent?  If so, from that Set, can he go to either 1B or the plate?

[isired]

Can a RHP come Set with his left heal off the ground, and left knee slightly bent?  If so, from that Set, can he go to either 1B or the plate?

Even if that's a legal set (I don't know), I wouldn't think he could go to 1B - for the same reason that if he had the foot on the ground, he's forced to deliver a pitch once he raises the left foot and knee - he'd have to move his foot/leg toward home as part of the process of turning and throwing to 1B.

 

Since he can't go to 1B, and he can't disengage the rubber (right?) I would think this is a bad idea.

 

[maven]

1 hour ago, RPW said:

Can a RHP come Set with his left heel off the ground, and left knee slightly bent?  If so, from that Set, can he go to either 1B or the plate?

Of course, why not? Nothing in the rules prohibits any of that.

Before delivering to the plate, he would still have to come set. Before throwing to 1B, he would still have to step toward 1B with his free (left) foot.

[isired]

I mis-read the OP. I thought he was saying his foot was off the ground, dangling in the air.

[maven]

5 minutes ago, isired said:

I mis-read the OP. I thought he was saying his foot was off the ground, dangling in the air.

Are you saying he can't come set like that, either?

[isired]

Are you saying he can't come set like that, either?

No, I just don't think that he can throw to 1B without moving toward the plate first, nor can he disengage, so he's committing himself to pitch from that set.

[RPW]

23 minutes ago, maven said:

Of course, why not? Nothing in the rules prohibits any of that.

Before delivering to the plate, he would still have to come set. Before throwing to 1B, he would still have to step toward 1B with his free (left) foot.

The Set rule really doesn't address the feet and the ground, so that is why I wasn't sure if it would be legal.  So, a legal Set, if the pitcher doesn't raise his heal, or bend his knee, any further, he would be free to go to first, as long as he steps towards the bag?

[Senor Azul]

Mr.maven, I am inferring from your question to Mr. isired that you think a pitcher can come set with his lead (non-pivot) foot in the air. Is that what you were implying? If so, could you give us a rule or case play supporting that please.

[isired]

The Set rule really doesn't address the feet and the ground, so that is why I wasn't sure if it would be legal.  So, a legal Set, if the pitcher doesn't raise his heal, or bend his knee, any further, he would be free to go to first, as long as he steps towards the bag?

Mr.maven, I am inferring from your question to Mr. isired that you think a pitcher can come set with his lead (non-pivot) foot in the air. Is that what you were implying? If so, could you give us a rule or case play supporting that please.

I agree with Maven that it's probably legal, not because there's language that saysit's legal but rather because there isn't language prohibiting it, as far as I can recall.

In other words, can a fielder catch a fly ball behind his back? Of course, there's nothing saying he can't.

[scrounge]

55 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr.maven, I am inferring from your question to Mr. isired that you think a pitcher can come set with his lead (non-pivot) foot in the air. Is that what you were implying? If so, could you give us a rule or case play supporting that please.

If he truly comes set and doesn't violate any other provisions of the pitching rules, why wouldn't it be legal? Odd to do so, but odd in and of itself isn't illegal.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.19, p. 102):

“When using the set position with runners on base, a pitcher must come to a complete stop with his front foot on the ground.”

From the 2016 BRD (section 426, p. 284):

FED Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  The pitcher may not have his non-pivot foot in the air when he comes to his stop. (4/89)

[isired]

There you go...

[RPW]

2 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.19, p. 102):

“When using the set position with runners on base, a pitcher must come to a complete stop with his front foot on the ground.”

From the 2016 BRD (section 426, p. 284):

FED Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  The pitcher may not have his non-pivot in the air when he comes to his stop. (4/89)

For the Record...my original question had nothing to do with the front foot dangling above the ground, which was inserted by another poster.  Based on the above Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual..."his front foot on the ground" ...would having his foot down but his heal raised be legal?  Anything about the lead knee being bent as a problem?

[isired]

For the Record...my original question had nothing to do with the front foot dangling above the ground, which was inserted by another poster.  Based on the above Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual..."his front foot on the ground" ...would having his foot down but his heal raised be legal?  Anything about the lead knee being bent as a problem?

I think we all agree that your premise is perfectly legal. I seem to remember an MLB pitcher in the80s that used to kind of crouch in his set, heel raised, both knees bent a bit.

[Jimurray]

I think they are referring to when a pitcher comes set normally but raises his leg to go home as he comes set, as in the Evans video. But I think if anyone attempted a stork set there would be some wobbling and a balk no matter what. If there was no wobbling then the pitcher would not be in baseball, he would be on a street corner making money as a statue

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, RPW said:

Can a RHP come Set with his left heal off the ground, and left knee slightly bent?  If so, from that Set, can he go to either 1B or the plate?

Yes he can. What he can’t do from that position is drop the left heel 

[maven]

5 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Yes he can. What he can’t do from that position is drop the left heel 

I wonder whether "foot on the ground" is satisfied by a toe or five. As I've never seen either the question or the interp, much less the position, I really have no idea.

[RPW]

4 minutes ago, maven said:

I wonder whether "foot on the ground" is satisfied by a toe or five. As I've never seen either the question or the interp, much less the position, I really have no idea.

Kinda imitating the "balk move" before going to the plate with a slide step, or going to 1B.  Have worked on it, but didn't know if it would be legal, much less have any advantage.  

[maven]

1 hour ago, RPW said:

Kinda imitating the "balk move" before going to the plate with a slide step, or going to 1B.

I have, literally, no idea what this sentence (fragment) means.

[RPW]

5 minutes ago, maven said:

I have, literally, no idea what this sentence (fragment) means.

Since you said "never seen either the question or the interp, much less the position, I really have no idea",  your take is literally understandable. 

[noumpere]

12 hours ago, RPW said:

Kinda imitating the "balk move" before going to the plate with a slide step, or going to 1B.  Have worked on it, but didn't know if it would be legal, much less have any advantage.  

 

11 hours ago, maven said:

I have, literally, no idea what this sentence (fragment) means.

I have seen both the position and the interp, but I, too, have no idea what that sentence fragment means.

[RPW]

23 minutes ago, noumpere said:

 

I have seen both the position and the interp, but I, too, have no idea what that sentence fragment means.

Sorry for the fragmented post, as I forgot with whom I was conversing.  What terms gotcha?  "Balk Move", "Slide Step", "going to 1B"?  I guess I thought, from my original question, it was understood where I was going with same, and didn't need to spell it out in prose.  I did appreciate your response concerning the position being legal, and point about the heal "going down".

[MadMax]

12 hours ago, RPW said:

Kinda imitating the "balk move" before going to the plate with a slide step, or going to 1B.  Have worked on it, but didn't know if it would be legal, much less have any advantage.  

Waitaminute... from what context or perspective are you asking? Are you asking as a coach or player, developing a move? Or are you asking as an umpire, speculating on the legality of something you’ve seen?

If the former, my advice is to work on your pitching effectiveness (throw strikes) and delivery (speed to the plate, throwing strikes, so as to allow your catcher to throw out runners), rather than trying to develop a “legally deceptive” stance.

[RPW]

5 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Waitaminute... from what context or perspective are you asking? Are you asking as a coach or player, developing a move? Or are you asking as an umpire, speculating on the legality of something you’ve seen?

If the former, my advice is to work on your pitching effectiveness (throw strikes) and delivery (speed to the plate, throwing strikes, so as to allow your catcher to throw out runners), rather than trying to develop a “legally deceptive” stance.

Please read the original post.  I ask a question about coming Set, nothing more, addressed to Umpires, from whom I thought I could get a educated answer.  The Thread spun out of control, followed by a back handed statement to me about never seeing it, so I tried to put the question in context, which in hindsight was my mistake.  Didn't ask for advice, just an answer to a rules question.

[MadMax]

34 minutes ago, RPW said:

Please read the original post.  I ask a question about coming Set, nothing more, addressed to Umpires, from whom I thought I could get a educated answer.  The Thread spun out of control, followed by a back handed statement to me about never seeing it, so I tried to put the question in context, which in hindsight was my mistake.  Didn't ask for advice, just an answer to a rules question.

Alright, fair enough...

I’ll answer as an umpire: As long as you come set, and pause/stop, it doesn’t matter if your free (left) foot’s heEl is up, down, or bare. It doesn’t matter if one or both knees are bent. Hands must come together, feet (generally) in line towards the plate, and movement below the neck must stop.

I’ll answer as my minor league pitching coach would to any of the new pitchers: “If you don’t let anyone on base, you don’t have to worry about your set stance. Throw strikes, get those fü€#in’ batters out.” (I’m paraphrasing). Thing is, any professional pitching coach is going to completely break down your stance and footwork when you have runners aboard, and start you over. Then, when you ask him your OP question about your heel being up or down, he’ll reply with “Why?”

 

 

Heel, heel, heel, heel, heel, heel, heel, heel

[noumpere]

4 hours ago, RPW said:

Sorry for the fragmented post, as I forgot with whom I was conversing.  What terms gotcha?  "Balk Move", "Slide Step", "going to 1B"?  I guess I thought, from my original question, it was understood where I was going with same, and didn't need to spell it out in prose.  I did appreciate your response concerning the position being legal, and point about the heal "going down".

Start with "the 'balk move' " -- as if there's only one --   and how that relates to further clarifying your post about what happened (or what you are trying to do). 

I clearly understand "slide step" and "going to first:" but I fail to understand what they have to do with whether a pitcher's heel is raised or not.