Squeeze Play

[MT73]

Runner on third steals home.

Catcher jumps in front of the plate before ball gets there and tags the runner.

In OBR we have a balk and Catcher's interference so the run scores and batter gets 1B

But what is the ruling in Federation rules.?

My confusion comes from the fact that in Fed a balk is a dead ball so can we have both the balk and, in this case, Catcher's Obstruction?

I

[scrounge]

Balk? No runner gets 1B on a balk call. Just go with the much more straightforward catchers' interference/obstruction in all codes and score the runner while putting the B/R on 1st (unless for some crazy reason the coach wants the play - I wouldn't even bother asking in this situation).

[maven]

Don't be confused. In FED it's CO only, live ball, no balk. The only enforcement difference arises if you have R2 not forced and not stealing (as Steve calls him, "stupid R2").

[MT73]

So do we call the runner from 3rd out?

[ALStripes17]

So do we call the runner from 3rd out?

What?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[maven]

10 minutes ago, MT73 said:

So do we call the runner from 3rd out?

You're thinking INT; this is OBS by F2.

[BobUmp]

Can I ask a mechanics question? In the past 3 weeks I've had two attempted suicide squeeze plays, and three straight steal attempts of home. Every time, by the time i go through my head of 1) pitch or throw, did pitcher step off 2) if pitcher steps off, does batter interfere with throw 3) if a pitch, does catcher receive in front of the plate and we have CO 4) does batter interfere with tag attempt, and 5) does catcher block the entire plate waiting for the throw, I still have the safe or out call, and I was stuck in my slot stance, where i dont know if im getting the best look. My calls have been split 3-2 out to safe. I had two calls not even questioned by the backstop crowd, one questioned politely by the coach, and two where i had to warn ACs. I have asked my senior partners post game if there is a better way to do it, or a change in mechanic, and they all have said you can only do the best you can do, that there is not much they can tell me to change. So I am asking, should I get up immediately and try to move 3blx when action is obvious, or even move after the fact to a 3blx posture just to sell it better, or just stay still and do what i can? The last two were attempted steals in one game. I adjusted slightly by standing up from my set slot position and kind of leaned over the action. But in that game i had the two ac warnings (one for each team) so i dont know if it helped any in either selling the call or the actual view. Any tips?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[MT73]

16 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

What?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

The runner coming to score was tagged out by the catcher during the Catcher's Obstruction.

Are you saying that we award the batter first base and allow the out to stand?

[scrounge]

2 minutes ago, MT73 said:

The runner coming to score was tagged out by the catcher during the Catcher's Obstruction.

Are you saying that we award the batter first base and allow the out to stand?

Oh, no....if R3 is stealing on CO, he gets home. He would not get home if not stealing, unless forced by B/R getting 1st (IOW, it was bases loaded).

[maven]

A straight steal of home is one of the hardest calls for a PU, and we get very little practice with them.

No, there's no magic formula or mechanic to help you here, especially if you still have to call the pitch. A couple points:

1. If you're not already in the habit of knowing exactly what F1 does from the moment he engages the rubber until he pitches, picks, or disengages — on EVERY pitch of every game — then that's step 1. Acquire that habit as quickly as possible.
2. That takes care of one of your questions: you'll always know whether it's a pitch or a throw to F2 (and whether it's a balk too).
3. Another general habit to acquire: be aware of when runners take off without seeing them. The defense generally calls this out, but it's possible to pick up the action yourself without those cues.
4. If F1 pitches, then we have to call the pitch, and that means staying in your stance as the play at the plate develops. Many HS and youth catchers do not know how to play on R3 stealing, and they'll take the throw on or in front of HP. Recognize the CO/CI.
5. If F1 disengages and throws, we still don't have much opportunity to move; but then, neither does F2. Do your best to get an angle on the play.

F2 seldom has time to move up to block the plate (regular OBS), especially with a RH batter (and with steals of HP it's usually a RH batter). I'd forget about this unless it's really obvious.

[noumpere]

30 minutes ago, maven said:

A straight steal of home is one of the hardest calls for a PU, and we get very little practice with them.

No, there's no magic formula or mechanic to help you here, especially if you still have to call the pitch. A couple points:

1. If you're not already in the habit of knowing exactly what F1 does from the moment he engages the rubber until he pitches, picks, or disengages — on EVERY pitch of every game — then that's step 1. Acquire that habit as quickly as possible.
2. That takes care of one of your questions: you'll always know whether it's a pitch or a throw to F2 (and whether it's a balk too).
3. Another general habit to acquire: be aware of when runners take off without seeing them. The defense generally calls this out, but it's possible to pick up the action yourself without those cues.
4. If F1 pitches, then we have to call the pitch, and that means staying in your stance as the play at the plate develops. Many HS and youth catchers do not know how to play on R3 stealing, and they'll take the throw on or in front of HP. Recognize the CO/CI.
5. If F1 disengages and throws, we still don't have much opportunity to move; but then, neither does F2. Do your best to get an angle on the play.

F2 seldom has time to move up to block the plate (regular OBS), especially with a RH batter (and with steals of HP it's usually a RH batter). I'd forget about this unless it's really obvious.

I'll add -- it isn't going to be a swipe tag, so there's no need to move from the slot.  1bx works just fine, here.

[BobUmp]

Thanks gentlemen. I will stick to my mechanic as is, and do the best i can. I'd like to think i wont see another for awhile, but this type of stuff seems to happen in waves, and im surfing right now!

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[VolUmp]

3 hours ago, MT73 said:

So do we call the runner from 3rd out?

MT73, part of your confusion may have to do with FED's decision to call it "Catcher's Obstruction (CO)" instead of "Catcher's interference (CI)."

MLB and most brands of baseball call it Catcher's INT.  FED, which finds new and exciting ways to confuse baseball purists every year, decided that to make things precise, Catcher's Obstruction shall be the name given to the catcher's infraction because he is a defensive player, and OBS is attributed to defense.  (INT is attributed to offense).  While they are technically correct with this thought, it just isn't helpful at all due to the historical and traditional nature of the term CI.

Soon, the FED book will re-name the on-deck circle the "Next Batter's Box."  That's the technical name that MLB gives it, but hasn't used in 100 years.

FED no doubt is offended by the term rubber, so at the risk of a reader thinking we are talking about raincoats or condoms, they must call it the pitcher's plate.

And when you find one person who agrees with the logic of their base runner designations over OBR (MLB), please call me.  I have a thousand free condoms (uhhh ... I mean plates) to give them free ... as an early Christmas (uhhhh ... ) Holiday gift.

[MT73]

Actually my confusion comes from Fed's insistence that a balk is an automatic dead ball.

In OBR if the catcher jumps in front of the plate while a runner is trying to score from 3B we have CI/CO which gives the batter first base.

However, we also have a balk on the pitcher ( even though he did nothing wrong) which allows the run to score and advances any other runner first base.

Now in Fed we cannot have both CO and a balk so there was my confusion.

So-- Batter gets first base on the CO and the runner advancing from 3B-who may have been tagged out--is allowed to score.

Is that pretty much it?

[KenBAZ]

Can someone point to the OBR rule that mandates a balk on F1 when F2 commits CI? This is the second time this has been referred to in the past couple of weeks and I was completely unaware such a rule existed.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, KenBAZ said:

Can someone point to the OBR rule that mandates a balk on F1 when F2 commits CI? This is the second time this has been referred to in the past couple of weeks and I was completely unaware such a rule existed.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
 

It's not on all CI -- only when R3 is trying to score on a steal or squeeze.

 

(g) (7.07)

Interference With Squeeze Play or Steal

of Home

If, with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a

squeeze play or a steal, the catcher or any other fielder steps on, or

in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the

batter or his bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter

shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

[maven]

7 hours ago, MT73 said:

Actually my confusion comes from Fed's insistence that a balk is an automatic dead ball.

In OBR if the catcher jumps in front of the plate while a runner is trying to score from 3B we have CI/CO which gives the batter first base.

However, we also have a balk on the pitcher ( even though he did nothing wrong) which allows the run to score and advances any other runner first base.

Now in Fed we cannot have both CO and a balk so there was my confusion.

So-- Batter gets first base on the CO and the runner advancing from 3B-who may have been tagged out--is allowed to score.

Is that pretty much it?

No, that's not it. I tried to correct this in an earlier post; let me try again.

In FED this is NOT a balk. It is ONLY CO, and the ball is live.

Don't read the OBR rule into FED. (And, if you're going to ask for the FED citation, all I can show you is the CO rule, 8-1-1e, which contains no "special case" for R3 advancing on the pitch — steal or squeeze.)

As a practical matter, enforcement will be exactly the same in both codes, with one exception (R2 unforced, not stealing, will remain on 2B).

[Jimurray]

On 5/22/2017 at 5:54 PM, maven said:

A straight steal of home is one of the hardest calls for a PU, and we get very little practice with them.

No, there's no magic formula or mechanic to help you here, especially if you still have to call the pitch. A couple points:

1. If you're not already in the habit of knowing exactly what F1 does from the moment he engages the rubber until he pitches, picks, or disengages — on EVERY pitch of every game — then that's step 1. Acquire that habit as quickly as possible.
2. That takes care of one of your questions: you'll always know whether it's a pitch or a throw to F2 (and whether it's a balk too).
3. Another general habit to acquire: be aware of when runners take off without seeing them. The defense generally calls this out, but it's possible to pick up the action yourself without those cues.
4. If F1 pitches, then we have to call the pitch, and that means staying in your stance as the play at the plate develops. Many HS and youth catchers do not know how to play on R3 stealing, and they'll take the throw on or in front of HP. Recognize the CO/CI.
5. If F1 disengages and throws, we still don't have much opportunity to move; but then, neither does F2. Do your best to get an angle on the play.

F2 seldom has time to move up to block the plate (regular OBS), especially with a RH batter (and with steals of HP it's usually a RH batter). I'd forget about this unless it's really obvious.

Sorry to resurrect this from last year but what @maven says bears renewing in your mind every year or actually anytime there is an R3: 

 

[Senor Azul]

2018 (also in the 2015 case book with same number) NFHS Case Book play 8.1.1 Situation L:  With R3 trying to score on a steal or squeeze play. F2 obstructs the batter’s swing. RULING:  This is defensive obstruction and R3 is awarded home. The batter is awarded first base. COMMENT:  If the catcher, or any other defensive player, obstructs the batter before he has become a batter-runner, the batter is awarded first base. If on such obstruction a runner is trying to score by a steal or a squeeze from third base, the play will be a delayed dead ball which results in the runner on third scoring and the batter being awarded first base. Runners not attempting to steal or not forced to advance remain on the bases occupied at the time of the obstruction.

[Jglopez7]

This has to be a balk. Since the Baseball never crossed the foul line to make it a legal pitch. AmiiiiRighttttt!!?!? 

[ElkOil]

7 minutes ago, Jglopez7 said:

This has to be a balk. Since the Baseball never crossed the foul line to make it a legal pitch. AmiiiiRighttttt!!?!? 

No. By definition, a balk is an illegal act committed by the pitcher with runners on. The illegal act in this scenario was committed by the catcher. A pitch that doesn't cross a foul line is only a balk when it is dropped.

[Tborze]

I would also suggest, if the batter doesn't step out on the pitch, keep your mask on

[Jimurray]

17 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

2018 (also in the 2015 case book with same number) NFHS Case Book play 8.1.1 Situation L:  With R3 trying to score on a steal or squeeze play. F2 obstructs the batter’s swing. RULING:  This is defensive obstruction and R3 is awarded home. The batter is awarded first base. COMMENT:  If the catcher, or any other defensive player, obstructs the batter before he has become a batter-runner, the batter is awarded first base. If on such obstruction a runner is trying to score by a steal or a squeeze from third base, the play will be a delayed dead ball which results in the runner on third scoring and the batter being awarded first base. Runners not attempting to steal or not forced to advance remain on the bases occupied at the time of the obstruction.

Some might make the semantic argument in FED that the bailing batter's swing was not obstructed. That argument would be refuted by a current caseplay. That argument also was used to support non calls of two college triple steals in years past that might actually have been CI. NCAA later came out with an interp that did not require a  batter's swing to be hindered.