HS Sitch

[Richvee]

5 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Rich, I'm just poking at you a bit.  OBVIOUSLY it matters where the ball is.  I already explained where the ball was, and was making the point that I could have re-set to another position if I felt I was going to block the throw because I had plenty of time with the runner going, retreating, then going again. 

ok. got ya.

[Kevin_K]

5 hours ago, VolUmp said:

FED

Offense down 3-2. Two outs. R3 tries to score on WP. F1 tags him out. I make call from 3BLX.

HC: "Did he not make it?"

Me: "He made it."  He reached the plate

HC: "And he was out?"

Me: "Yes."

----------------------------------

Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here (pointing) ... called 3rd Base Line Extended."  STFU stare

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

----------------------------------

 

[Richvee]

28 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

STFU stare

Love that.

[VolUmp]

41 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

STFU stare

I'd love it even more if we could just say it.

[maven]

9 hours ago, VolUmp said:

I'd love it even more if we could just say it.

As natural as it is to confront stupidity, I'd recommend reconsidering your attraction to that response. Coach is trying to work you. When you get upset, angry, "STFU"-ready, he wins.

He just had a call go against him, so he's upset and emotional. He wants to take you — the cause of his bad feelings — down with him. When you oblige him, you impair yourself for the next 20-30 minutes, as your cortisol and adrenaline levels balloon, thus compromising your pre-frontal cortex and decisionmaking.

If you can rise above it and stay cool, you win, and in more ways than one: coach fails to work you, and you're still focused and ready for the next pitch. And, when coach cools off, he might just respect your professionalism (though that's definitely a crapshoot).

[BrianC14]

10 hours ago, Richvee said:

Love that.

Somewhere there's a video of Jim Wolf staring down Frank Robinson (whom Wolf had just dumped).   Cox was taking his sweet time about heading to the clubhouse, and kept staring back at Wolf, who never flinched, never even blinked, but was waiting for Robinson to exfil himself before the game would continue.    That Wolf stare personified the STFU stare, I think.

Found it....

 

[VolUmp]

2 hours ago, maven said:

he might just respect your professionalism

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

We have amateur night each Friday at Zanie's in Nashville.  Come on ....

[Stk004]

13 hours ago, VolUmp said:

Wow.  Just wow.

Might as well make this line your signature... 

13 hours ago, Richvee said:

True. When the ball kicks to the 3B side and you get to "open the gate" by moving your left foot back, it takes you to that 3BLX. If you have to open the other way, there's no chance getting 3BLX.

I find that as long as I'm paying attention and considering a passed ball, I can bounce over to 3BLX on a passed ball to my right as long as the backstop isn't super close. If the ball kicks straight back to F2 the runner shouldn't be going anyway, so there's nowhere to be. It can be tough to get back to see the tag with the pitcher covering sometimes, especially if he sets up right behind the plate and tags the front edge. 

[Rich Ives]

Me: "He made it."

HC: "And he was out?"

Me: "Yes."

Diametrically opposed.  If English usage as I know it he made it he wasn't out.

 

Basketball equivalent:

Shot attempted (no time issue)

Me: "He made it."

HC: "And it doesn't count?"

Me: "Yes."

 

[VolUmp]

5 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

If English usage as I know it he made it he wasn't out.

"As you know it" ... keep learning, Rich ... it's never too late.  When you start umpiring, English will come much easier to you in the baseball vernacular.

[White47]

19 hours ago, VolUmp said:

Me: "He made it."

I not sure that this was the best choice of words. You got to remember who your talking to and how they will interpret it. to a coach "you made it" means safe. We understand what your saying as an umpires, but a coach in the heat of a game doesn't think like an umpire. I would have probably just said, "I had him out coach." A persons perception/interpretation is their reality. 

Now, to the coming back out to re-discuss the call. I'd probably say, "Coach its over," and if that didn't move him on his way I'd issue some type of warning. 

[Rich Ives]

2 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

"As you know it" ... keep learning, Rich ... it's never too late.  When you start umpiring, English will come much easier to you in the baseball vernacular.

Been using it for 72 years. I have a pretty good handle what it means to say "Did he make it".  It means "Did he succeed".  

[Rich Ives]

2 minutes ago, White47 said:

I not sure that this was the best choice of words. You got to remember who your talking to and how they will interpreter. to a coach "you made it" means safe. We understand what your saying as an umpires

EXACTLY:

There's no separate umpire English and coach English. If you know, as stated above, that "you made it" means safe, then you should respond accordingly. 

[White47]

6 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

EXACTLY:

There's no separate umpire English and coach English. If you know, as stated above, that "you made it" means safe, then you should respond accordingly. 

I think your agreeing with me??? If a coached ask me, "did he not make it?" I would respond with, "he was out." nothing more nothing less. Now if the coach want to walk down and have a more in depth discussion (a short one) I might go into a little more detail, but very little. details tend to get you ito trouble when talking to coaches. 

[VolUmp]

18 minutes ago, White47 said:

you made it

This does not mean safe ... it means he made it to the bag.  In the 90-foot base path, he didn't slide up to 88 1/2 feet. 

It was the coach who asked, and didn't argue until the next half inning.  I used his term. 

"And he was out?"  He knows he made it to the bag, but didn't think he was tagged in time.

"Yes." He made it to the bag, but he was tagged before he got there.

None of this exchange "caused" or gave the coach the "idea" that I was admitting to a blown call.

[VolUmp]

21 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Been using it for 72 years. I have a pretty good handle what it means to say "Did he make it".  It means "Did he succeed".  

Maybe it's time to adapt.

[White47]

46 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

This does not mean safe ... it means he made it to the bag.  In the 90-foot base path, he didn't slide up to 88 1/2 feet.  It was the coach who asked, and didn't argue until the next half inning.  I used his term. 

"And he was out?"  He knows he made it to the bag, but didn't think he was tagged in time.

"Yes." He made it to the bag, but he was tagged before he got there.

None of this exchange "caused" or gave the coach the "idea" that I was admitting to a blown call.

 

Did I say you blew a call or even came close. Or that you said anything wrong. You asked for advice on handling this situation, this is how I, and what appears by the response, many other Umpires would handle it on here..

I try to keep it simple, which IMO keeps conflict down. When I'm talking to a coach I pretend that I'm talking to my wife ( who is not baseball savvy, neither are some coaches). If I said he made it she would assume he was safe and probably quite listening. That human nature, we hear what we want then we turn or ears off. There are multiple ways that the above can be interrupted. Notice I didn't say there was multiple meanings (however I would agree there is). IMO the more detail the worst off you are. Out, safe, strike, ball. Those four explanations will cover 90% of conversations with coaches. You might have to add a, "he was", or "it was" in front.

Don't ask for help if you can't take constructive criticism. 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MT73]

Now I am confused.

Coach asks, "Did he make it"

You say, "Yes"

Coach asks, "But he is out?"

You reply yes...

How can he be out if he made it?

[udbrky]

19 hours ago, VolUmp said:

FED

Offense down 3-2. Two outs. R3 tries to score on WP. F1 tags him out. I make call from 3BLX.

HC: "Did he not make it?"

Me: "He made it."

HC: "And he was out?"

Me: "Yes."

----------------------------------

Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here (pointing) ... called 3rd Base Line Extended."

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

----------------------------------

What is the proper reply/reaction, and then I'll hear what Maven says.

What about "In my judgment, he was tagged before he reached the plate."?

[VolUmp]

35 minutes ago, udbrky said:

What about "In my judgment, he was tagged before he reached the plate."?

Good answer, but that wasn't the question.

 

40 minutes ago, MT73 said:

Now I am confused.

Coach asks, "Did he make it"

You say, "Yes"

Coach asks, "But he is out?"

You reply yes...

How can he be out if he made it?

Because "He made it" doesn't mean he's safe ... it means he didn't stop short of the bag.

I can do this all day, folks.

[udbrky]

Just now, VolUmp said:

Good answer, but that wasn't the question.

 

Because "He made it" doesn't mean he's safe ... it means he didn't stop short of the bag.

I can do this all day, folks.

Right, but maybe it would've prevented the rest of it. All he heard was that the guy made it. It's basically saying the same thing you did, but differently.

[VolUmp]

50 minutes ago, White47 said:

Don't ask for help if you can't take constructive criticism.

Please address the question I asked in the OP.  I wasn't asking how to handle the first part.

Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here (pointing) ... called 3rd Base Line Extended."

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

----------------------------------

What is the proper reply/reaction, and then I'll hear what Maven says.

[White47]

4 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Please address the question I asked in the OP.  I wasn't asking how to handle the first part.

Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here (pointing) ... called 3rd Base Line Extended."

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

----------------------------------

What is the proper reply/reaction, and then I'll hear what Maven says.

I wasn't there nor do I know the coach and his personality, but I feel this second would not have happened had there been a diffrent response in the beginning. 

[Tborze]

45 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Please address the question I asked in the OP.  I wasn't asking how to handle the first part.

Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here (pointing) ... called 3rd Base Line Extended."

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

----------------------------------

What is the proper reply/reaction, and then I'll hear what Maven says.

How did you end it?  Or answer it?  Did he come talk to you or was this from the dugout?

i think since you let it get too far already by answering his questions, I would answer his question. EJ isn't an option at this point IMO. 

Response could be, "next time I'll call it from the dugout"  

 

[Stk004]

2 hours ago, VolUmp said:

Please address the question I asked in the OP.  I wasn't asking how to handle the first part.

Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here (pointing) ... called 3rd Base Line Extended."

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

----------------------------------

What is the proper reply/reaction, and then I'll hear what Maven says.

Seeing as this was a half inning later, we shouldn't (and won't) be discussing old plays. 

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "[Coach's name], you already came out and asked about the play from last inning, we're done discussing it." 

I won't explain my mechanics to him because that can only lead to more snide/uninformed comments that will cause more issues. When he comes out to argue safe/out, all I'm telling him is that I had him out on the tag. Always let the coach get the first word to see what he's asking about, and then be as clear and concise as you can. No reason to feed him information he doesn't care about or say anything that could be used against me.