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Pan-Am games. What the heck?

krwill96

By krwill96
in Professional

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BillKen
BillKen

What's up with the one umpire pointing his finger in the face of the other and the offended pulling the arm down?  Made my BP go up a little!  

johnnyg08
johnnyg08

It is not a balk if they came out of a dead ball.  It's nothing.  You can't come out of a dead ball and run the hidden ball trick.  

noumpere
noumpere

Sigh.  No.   *IF* the ball was dead, then it couldn't be made live and return the runner. *IF* the ball was live, and the pitcher was astride, then it's a balk for "being astride without the ball". *I

Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted (edited)

Pan American games- 

http://es.pn/1CHlMzg
 

Are the rules different during these games? How is this legal? 

Maybe the"astride" part of on or astride got translated improperly. We actually had a thread here where an english speaker interpreted astride as the pivot foot next to, in front of  and in contact with the rubber. On actually meant only on top of to him.

Edited by Jimurray
maven

maven

Posted
Posted

The IBAF uses OBR with a few modifications. This is a balk.

The problem is the umpires: international umpires have vastly different levels of training, and they basically have to figure it out on the field. If the UIC says no balk, then it's not a balk.

BillKen

BillKen

Posted
Posted

What's up with the one umpire pointing his finger in the face of the other and the offended pulling the arm down?  Made my BP go up a little!

 

  • Like 1
Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

The IBAF uses OBR with a few modifications. This is a balk.

The problem is the umpires: international umpires have vastly different levels of training, and they basically have to figure it out on the field. If the UIC says no balk, then it's not a balk.

Upon further review, I can't tell if he was on or astride, but PU did point it live, which means nothing unless you are a big dog in the Dominican Republic. 

johnnyg08

johnnyg08

Posted
Posted

The IBAF uses OBR with a few modifications. This is a balk.

The problem is the umpires: international umpires have vastly different levels of training, and they basically have to figure it out on the field. If the UIC says no balk, then it's not a balk.

It is not a balk if they came out of a dead ball.  It's nothing.  You can't come out of a dead ball and run the hidden ball trick.  

  • Like 1
Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

Yes you can. In the DR when a big dog says you can. Or in many venues in the states where a big dog still exists without rules knowledge. What's surprising is the lack of the magic word, protest.

Better quality video

you can if the big dog says you can in the Dominican Republic. Similar to numerous venues here in the states with big dogs and no knowledge. What's amazing is no magic word in espanol or 

umpstu

umpstu

Posted
Posted

What's up with the one umpire pointing his finger in the face of the other and the offended pulling the arm down?  Made my BP go up a little!

 

Agreed

DVA7130

DVA7130

Posted
Posted

What the actual F.

It looks like the PU was immediately trying to wave it off, but an incompetent crew chief?

wow

UMP45

UMP45

Posted
Posted

Also the 2nd base umpire never looked at the play!

 

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

It is not a balk if they came out of a dead ball.  It's nothing.  You can't come out of a dead ball and run the hidden ball trick.  

But then they should have put the runner back on second and they didn't do that, either..

 

That pooch will be too sore to walk today after getting screwed twice by four guys.

BillKen

BillKen

Posted
Posted

So this is DR vs USA and the game is in the DR?

And the UIC is presumably from DR?

DR cheats and the one ump who knows the rules gets overruled by the DR UIC?

These are questions...I'm not playing attorney and using the question to make a point.  I'm just trying to see the whole picture.  Do any of you know the real answers to these questions? 

DVA7130

DVA7130

Posted
Posted

So this is DR vs USA and the game is in the DR?

And the UIC is presumably from DR?

DR cheats and the one ump who knows the rules gets overruled by the DR UIC?

These are questions...I'm not playing attorney and using the question to make a point.  I'm just trying to see the whole picture.  Do any of you know the real answers to these questions?

The games are in Canada.

I'm starting to think the UIC deserved to be lectured from the PU like in the video. At least in the locker room. I know I would have been absolutely incredulous if I was in this situation.

The coach looks like he is pleading with tournament officials at the end. They must not allow protests?   

gnhbua93

gnhbua93

Posted
Posted

Brought up thru the IBAF who has one director of umpire training that travel the world training the IBAF umpires. Don't get caught thinking that this is a baseball tournament like CDP or any kind of weekend tournament that anyone is call to umpire.

DVA7130

DVA7130

Posted
Posted

Brought up thru the IBAF who has one director of umpire training that travel the world training the IBAF umpires. Don't get caught thinking that this is a baseball tournament like CDP or any kind of weekend tournament that anyone is call to umpire.

I know this is basically the Olympic level. Which makes this so much the more disappointing. A rules misapplication on this scale can not happen.

johnnyg08

johnnyg08

Posted
Posted

I think those umpires have more training that many of the guys here

They might have had more training, but if they don't have the mental aptitude to process their training, the training doesn't mean anything.  

I don't care if they are 10 time umpire school grads, if they allowed this out to stand coming out of a dead ball, they were wrong.  Plain and simple and it really is Rules 101.

There was some major, major bitching in the umpire clubhouse after this one I guarantee that.

Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

They might have had more training, but if they don't have the mental aptitude to process their training, the training doesn't mean anything.  

I don't care if they are 10 time umpire school grads, if they allowed this out to stand coming out of a dead ball, they were wrong.  Plain and simple and it really is Rules 101.

There was some major, major bitching in the umpire clubhouse after this one I guarantee that.

If I have the right box score, these were the umpires:

 

Umpires

IBARRA Elber SHEWCHUCK Ronald REY COTTO Carlos ALLAN Robert

CUB HP CAN 1B USA 2B CAN 3B 

 

UMP45

UMP45

Posted
Posted

I think those umpires have more training that many of the guys here

Not necessarily.

Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

 

 Clowns circling the wagons: 

“The ruling was that he (Vargas) wasn’t astride or straddling the rubber,’’ said Baseball Canada technical director Jim Baba, who is also an IBAF official. “If he wasn’t astride the rubber or if he was behind the rubber, he was okay. The U.S. wanted to protest it but we had to explain to Mr. Tracy that you can’t protest a judgment. You can protest a rule but you can’t protest a judgment.’’

rjt6

rjt6

Posted
Posted

What's up with the one umpire pointing his finger in the face of the other and the offended pulling the arm down?  Made my BP go up a little!

 

Yes - I noticed that as well.

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