Stepping on your partner's toes

[StrikeDavis]

JV game, 2-man FED.  Runner on first, 1 out, top of the second.  I have the plate.  BU in B.  BU is a newer umpire in his second year with our association.  Runner on first steals on the pitch.  Foul tip is caught by the catcher who tries to retire the runner stealing.  The throw is low and the F4 can't field it so it rolls into CF.  The runner never slowed down, touches second and had a significant collision (both the runner and SS end up on the ground) with the SS who was standing (for some unknown reason) maybe 5 feet to the left of second.  The runner crawls back to second as the CF tosses the ball back to the infield.  After the ball got back to F4, I yelled time with every intention of calling obstruction and sending the runner to third.  However, as I yell time, I realize the BU did absolutely nothing.  He had no reaction to the play aside from watching it.  I ended up not calling obstruction and we kept the runner at second.  Between innings the BU tells me he just thought the play was a train wreck.  Now I am 100 percent certain I have obstruction.  I was 100 percent when it happened, 100 percent when we met between innings and 100 percent as I replayed this in my head during my drive home.  I didn't call it since I was at home plate and the BU was 10 feet away from the play.  Do you have obstruction on this play?  I know it may be a HTBT play.  If you have obstruction in this case, do you call it as PU?  Is there anything I could have done differently in this situation?            

[HuskerUmp22]

You could always get together and tell your partner the information that you have, especially if you are 100% sure it was obstruction. 

As far as if it should be obstruction, maybe look at the third base coach and see if he was going to send the runner. The runner may have just took an aggressive round off second and then collided with the SS. I don't think I would call obstruction if that was the case. If the CF was coming in hard, I don't think most would go to 3rd at that level. 

[Richvee]

I say call it.  If, like you say, you're 100% sure it was OBS, call it. Just like you would call INT on a ground ball to F6 if R2 collided with F6 but BU didn't see or call it. Noting I've ever seen says only the BU can call OBS. 

[maven]

Any umpire may properly rule on OBS. Call it, and don't second guess your partner's no-call, who might have picked up the back end without knowing how they got on the ground.

[CricketChapman]

If you see OBS, call OBS.  If you have the conviction that OBS has occurred, be bold and make the call immediately.

[zm1283]

In FED it's a one-base award, so the runner is getting third either way if you call obstruction. 

 

[noumpere]

Stepping on your partner's toes is okay.  Stepping on any other appendage -- not so much.  Knowing the difference is part of becoming a good umpire.

[NWA_UMP]

See a balk, call a balk...see OBS, call OBS.

 

My question to you is, who has the ball? If BU is watching for tag and ball gets thru to CF is he watching the ball or runner? Is he too close to see what happened as you have a perfect vantage point from the plate to see everything unfold.

[maineump]

See a balk, call a balk...see OBS, call OBS.

 

My question to you is, who has the ball? If BU is watching for tag and ball gets thru to CF is he watching the ball or runner? Is he too close to see what happened as you have a perfect vantage point from the plate to see everything unfold.

​The BU should have the ball, and if he is in the right spot could have the runner as well. I agree with above, if the PU sees it, call it.

This can be called by the PU on a lead runner that rounds second, so why not here?

[Umpire in Chief]

Here's my thought...

In today's mindset of getting the call right, if you have obstruction (or any other offense) then call it. Your partner shouldn't have any issues.

However, some umpire's have not adjusted to the changing times may take offense at you making the call, but it is still the right thing to do. 

Now, that said, there are calls which would be stepping on your partners toes where the call is absolutely their call.

Also, before you make such a call make sure you are sure.

[StrikeToWin]

I was once told by a partner on an IFF situation that he would make the call and that it is not my call (I was BU).  It came up around the third inning and I just watched the ensuing circus as my partner could not find the ball and make a determination of whether or not an infielder had a legitimate shot at catching the ball (he did but failed to make the catch).  I at least had a hand in the air showing it so we were able to correct everything that happened (BR out, R2 safe at 3B since there was no tag and the force was off) but both coaches were hot that no one made a verbal indication of IFF.

[UmpJeff]

I was once told by a partner on an IFF situation that he would make the call and that it is not my call (I was BU).  It came up around the third inning and I just watched the ensuing circus as my partner could not find the ball and make a determination of whether or not an infielder had a legitimate shot at catching the ball (he did but failed to make the catch).  I at least had a hand in the air showing it so we were able to correct everything that happened (BR out, R2 safe at 3B since there was no tag and the force was off) but both coaches were hot that no one made a verbal indication of IFF.

​Simply because it wasn't called/verbalized, doesn't negate the situation.  It's still an IFF...

As a BU, there have been times I've had to call it because PU did not.  

[StrikeToWin]

I guess I should have clarified a bit more, this partner and I had worked together previously and I called an IFF in that game and so he made sure in our pregame and at the time that I first called the IFF that it was the PU's call and that I should not make that call.  I didn't agree with him then but as an older, more experienced umpire, he was going to get that call not me.  I know it doesn't have to be verbalized, but I generally verbalize it loud and clear so there is no mistaking the ruling on the field.  It was just a situation that I was not going to step on his toes and he had to take the sammich that came to him from both dugouts because he told them that it was his call.

[LMSANS]

My pre-game always includes "you point, I call.  If I don't call for some reason (brain fart, etc.), then you call it.

[Nafxos]

My pre-game always includes "you point, I call.  If I don't call for some reason (brain fart, etc.), then you call it.

​I hear that from some veteran partners and I've never understood it.  What's the advantage to that mechanic?  If the BU has an IFF, why can't he call it?  Especially on pop ups to F4 and F6, where he has a much better look at whether the fielder can catch it with ordinary effort.

[LMSANS]

​I hear that from some veteran partners and I've never understood it.  What's the advantage to that mechanic?  If the BU has an IFF, why can't he call it?  Especially on pop ups to F4 and F6, where he has a much better look at whether the fielder can catch it with ordinary effort.

​Is it fair or foul?  BU is in C.  Only IFF if fair.

[Nafxos]

​Is it fair or foul?  BU is in C.  Only IFF if fair.

​Then you say "IFF if fair".  I'm fine with giving PU first crack at popups to F3 and F5 near the line.  But why should I just point and not say anything as BU on a clear IFF to F4 or F6?

I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I've just heard this more than a few times from veterans, and it doesn't make any sense to me.  See it, call it.  What am I missing?

[LMSANS]

​Then you say "IFF if fair".  I'm fine with giving PU first crack at popups to F3 and F5 near the line.  But why should I just point and not say anything as BU on a clear IFF to F4 or F6?

I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I've just heard this more than a few times from veterans, and it doesn't make any sense to me.  See it, call it.  What am I missing?

​FED manual says "it's usually the plate umpire", but either can call it.  Your local mechanics can take it either way.  Around here, this is what we do, HS and most other levels.

[woodiemiller]

I say call it.  If, like you say, you're 100% sure it was OBS, call it. Just like you would call INT on a ground ball to F6 if R2 collided with F6 but BU didn't see or call it. Noting I've ever seen says only the BU can call OBS. 

​Then nothing Ive ever seen where a BU cant call pitches balls or strikes either. lol

You get together with the BU & explain to him what you (PU) saw & ask him to reconsider. If he reconsiders, let HIM make the call. It is HIS call.

Edited May 11, 2015 by woodiemiller

[Richvee]

​Then nothing Ive ever seen where a BU cant call pitches balls or strikes either. lol

You get together with the BU & explain to him what you (PU) saw & ask him to reconsider. If he reconsiders, let HIM make the call. It is HIS call.

​Sorry, with all due respect, if I see OBS and my partner missed it because he was watching for a catch/no catch in the OF, or glanced at 1B to see a touch...whatever the reason, I'm calling the OBS and awarding the appropriate bases and my partner should have no problem with it. There's no way I'm not calling it, let the play finish, then get together with my partner who obviously didn't see what I saw, and then leave it up to him to call something he didn't see and award bases based on something he didn't see. ...Talk about a $hi% storm... , 

 

Oh...and by the way..Page 40, 2015-2016 NFHS baseball umpires manual.

 "General duties and responsibilities"

U1  1. Call balls and strikes.......

.....I'm still looking for where it says BU shall make all obstruction calls. 

 

[kstrunk]

If I'm not mistaken, PU makes calls on interference when there is a force play slide rule violation and the BU is working the DP, so why should obstruction be any different? 

[woodiemiller]

​Sorry, with all due respect, if I see OBS and my partner missed it because he was watching for a catch/no catch in the OF, or glanced at 1B to see a touch...whatever the reason, I'm calling the OBS and awarding the appropriate bases and my partner should have no problem with it. There's no way I'm not calling it, let the play finish, then get together with my partner who obviously didn't see what I saw, and then leave it up to him to call something he didn't see and award bases based on something he didn't see. ...Talk about a $hi% storm... , 

 

Oh...and by the way..Page 40, 2015-2016 NFHS baseball umpires manual.

 "General duties and responsibilities"

U1  1. Call balls and strikes.......

.....I'm still looking for where it says BU shall make all obstruction calls. 

 

So if your partner the BU doesnt see a pulled foot at 1b and you PU see it, is it ok for you to just call a BR "Safe" all on your own without being asked for help because you saw it? No! Or if theres a missed tag at 2b but your partner doesnt see it, is it ok for to just call the runner "Safe" because you saw it? No! But hey, "General duties & responsibilities" right? WRONG!

Your reasoning is very flawed. I bet if you reffed basketball you are the guy who thinks you can make any & every call no matter where you are as long as you can "see it"? Right?

[kstrunk]

So if your partner the BU doesnt see a pulled foot at 1b and you PU see it, is it ok for you to just call a BR "Safe" all on your own without being asked for help because you saw it? No! Or if theres a missed tag at 2b but your partner doesnt see it, is it ok for to just call the runner "Safe" because you saw it? No! But hey, "General duties & responsibilities" right? WRONG!

Your reasoning is very flawed. I bet if you reffed basketball you are the guy who thinks you can make any & every call no matter where you are as long as you can "see it"? Right?

​With all respect and admiration for your wisdom and experience woodie... isn't there a major difference between overturning a call that HAS been made and making a call on something that was never seen? In the case of a pulled foot or missed tag where a BU makes a call, of course we shouldn't arbitrarily overturn his/her call. But if they make NO call because they don't know, and we DO know, shouldn't we help them and call it? Of course there are mechanics for this to protect the integrity of officials. But in the case of obstruction where a BU is clearly and rightly focused elsewhere, our responsibility as a team is to get it right to the extent possible, AS A TEAM. All that considered, perhaps this is something I'll start to pregame just to avoid any issues. 

[grayhawk]

Remember the OBS call in the World Series?  DeMuth (PU) called it at the same time as Joyce (U3)...

[woodiemiller]

​With all respect and admiration for your wisdom and experience woodie... isn't there a major difference between overturning a call that HAS been made and making a call on something that was never seen? In the case of a pulled foot or missed tag where a BU makes a call, of course we shouldn't arbitrarily overturn his/her call. But if they make NO call because they don't know, and we DO know, shouldn't we help them and call it? Of course there are mechanics for this to protect the integrity of officials. But in the case of obstruction where a BU is clearly and rightly focused elsewhere, our responsibility as a team is to get it right to the extent possible, AS A TEAM. All that considered, perhaps this is something I'll start to pregame just to avoid any issues. 

​Good point kstrunk. However, the case was made that BU saw the contact but was inexperienced to rule on it. Hence why I offered the PU to go talk to him about it. Its still BU's call to make. If BU decides to take the PU's advice, that makes them BOTH look good. If PU just takes the call, it makes everyone wonder why BU didnt make the call himself & that can cause more problems later.