Nafxos

I used that once in a HS varsity game, but with emphasis on the last word ("who are YOU?"). HC and assistant were both questioning something between innings. I don't remember what the issue was, but it worked beautifully. HC told AC to get in the dugout and keep his mouth shut.

By the time F3 fields the ball, he was back in the running lane and his right foot was almost touching the right edge of the lane. That's the starting position that matters, not where he was (in fair territory) a few steps before. I don't think he deviated 3+ feet to avoid the actual tag attempt.

I didn't like the call. I don't think he deviated more than 3 feet from his established basepath once the tag attempt began.

Here's a longer video from a different angle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0duIaLLuXM F2 and the batter clearly knew exactly what was going on. I'd guess he called a "no stop" balk.

I had one of these plays yesterday and may have kicked it. HS varsity, but we play under OBR here in Massachusetts. I'm PU. R1. Righthanded batter bunts and runs into the ball in front of home plate. His trailing right foot was still on the ground in the box but most of his body was in front of the plate and the ball was clearly in fair territory. No intent to interfere. I ruled it foul. DHC wanted an out. I was pretty sure of myself when I made the call, but after re-reading the rules last night I began to think I should have grabbed the out. I ran it by some other umpires this morning and the consensus was foul, but I just don't see that based on the actual language in the rules.

I was a vumpire a couple of years ago.

Deleted

Maybe if the runner sprinted into LF and tackled F7 before she could catch the ball. Other than that, probably not.

This is not an appeal play. He was out before the pitch was thrown to the next batter, and he's still out after the pitch is thrown.

Not correct. The batter is awarded first. Next batter leads off next inning.

Interestingly, less than 24 hours after having this discussion, I had a JV game end yesterday on a missed base appeal when the would-be tying run missed 3rd. There was no force situation, so it's not exactly the same, but had the bases been loaded instead of just R2 and R3, it would have affected the final score and possibly could have affected the outcome. In my game, VT trailed by 2 in the top of the 7th with 2 outs and R2 and R3. Batter hits an apparent game-tying double. Defense appeals that R2 missed 3rd. PU calls R2 out, taking tying run off the board, game over, HT wins by one. Had the bases been loaded, my understanding is that R3's run would not have counted because R2's out on appeal would still be considered a force out, and thus the HT would have won by 2. If the home team had only been winning by one with the bases loaded, it would have been a sh*tshow. R2 out on appeal. R3's run doesn't count because of the force out. And instead of a tie game we'd have game over.

I can definitely think of one local umpire who is WAY too familiar / comfortable with the local teams. When we're working, I don't want to see my partner chatting over the rail with fans between innings, or laughing with coaches, or taking over the plate conference as BU to explain "his" ground rules, or not doing any pre-game or post-game with me because he's too busy holding court. It's incredibly unprofessional, although I doubt the teams / coaches / fans know any better. So when other umpires work with him, we look like unapproachable a-holes in comparison.

Yes, thank you! Lightbulb has finally gone on, and I see the light. I think my issue stems from the case play that talks about R2 missing 3rd on inside-the-park HR. I assumed (wrongly) that they were specifying "inside the park" in that instance because it was meaningful information, and thus that an outside the park HR might be treated differently. Lesson learned. Sorry about the rule number mixup. I was posting from my ipad earlier and mucked it up.

I get that part. I'm having trouble with the force play part, and why this isn't exception 3 to 5.09(a). My question in a nutshell was "does the over-the-fence home run change it from a force play to something else?" The consensus here seems to be no. Which is fine. And that's how I'll rule in the unlikely event I ever see this play in real life. That said, I still haven't seen anything explicit in the case plays cited that addresses this exact situation.

Rich - I really appreciate the comments and I am not trying to be obtuse here, but I'm still not seeing anything explicit in the rules or the commentary that convinces me that R2 missing 3rd on the over-the-fence HR is a force out upon proper appeal. I see it on the inside-the-park HR, because everyone is forced to move up one base when the batter hit the ball. But on the over-the-fence HR, we now have a dead ball award of home for everybody. Yes, the runners still must touch the bases in order. And yes, the defense can appeal a missed base. But I can't make the connection that with bases loaded, if R2 misses 3rd and is properly appealed, that was a force and R3 can't score.

Thanks! My only question is that the case described is subtly different from approved ruling #1 above. Does it matter if the ball goes over the fence? In the approved ruling it's an inside the park HR, so that makes sense to me as exception #2 in 5.09(a). The second example above is clearly exception #1. But is there any case play or approved ruling that addresses a runner missing the base he was "forced" to on an over-the-fence HR? That's the crux of my question - is the next base still a "force" in that situation, or is it now an "award" and thus treated differently?

Saw this question on another forum, and wasn't satisfied with the explanations. OBR. Bases loaded, 2 outs, batter hits a home run, R2 misses 3rd, defense properly appeals. How many runs score? If R2's out is considered a force out, no runs would score. If not, then R3 would score but R1 and BR would not. In looking at the exceptions in 5.08(a), I think this is exception #3, not exception #2. Am I wrong?

I had that exact play in my first-ever varsity game a couple of years ago. We counted the run and the defensive HC was so adamant / upset that I started second-guessing myself a little. I went from 100% sure the run scored to wondering if somehow, some way I was misunderstanding a pretty simple rule. Fortunately, it only took a few seconds in the parking lot after the game to confirm that I knew what I was doing.

Nope. The score was already out of hand, so the offensive coach just accepted it and we moved on. I was BU in C position. 2 outs. Batter hits a bomb between F7 and F8 that just kept rolling (no fence). He probably could have rounded the bases twice. After he scored I was heading back to A position when I see the defense leaving the field and realize my partner has called the BR out. I figured he must have missed 3rd and been called out on appeal. Later I found out that he called BR out for high-fiving the 3rd base coach (who was a teammate) on his way by. My jaw almost hit the floor.

I had a partner call this in a JV game last year. He's now on my "guys I won't work with" list.

Spring has been miserable here so far. 50 degrees and rainy almost every day. Had another rainout yesterday (second game of a doubleheader, but at least we got the first one in).

We have a winner! That's my lineup card holder. My jacket doesn't have a breast pocket so I keep it there when it's cold and I'm working the bases.

I nailed it.

That's me on the bases. Safe!

Agree. I had that happen in an earlier game. My angle wasn't ideal and I got straightlined. I called BR out and immediately knew I might have kicked it when the entire offensive team (they had the 1B dugout) seemed to scream "he was off the bag!" simultaneously. The HC asked me to check and I agreed. PU confirmed that F3 was off the bag and I changed the call to safe. That incident got me thinking more about going directly to the PU to ask if he pulled his foot BEFORE making my call. I've always been of the belief that it's better to make a call and fix it later if necessary. And I especially don't want to go to the PU if I'm not certain he was watching / in position. But in this case, we could have saved some heartache if I had gone to my partner before calling the BR out. Ultimately we got it right. But the defensive HC decided to start dropping f-bombs and didn't see the rest of the game.