Steal of home & backtrack - who's call?

[scrounge]

Ok, so this happened tonight. I doubt you'd ever see this in a high-level game, but this? Wasn't.

 

City league baseball - allegedly varsity but it's quite low level, probably on par with most suburban middle schools. One kid didn't know that strike three meant he had to go back to the dugout. Yea.

 

Anyway, R3 with 1 out, I am PU. Pitcher is in the windup and runner breaks for home on first move. Fine, but he doesn't stop. I don't think he meant to steal home but he just kept going. Batter swings, clean catch and no catcher's obstruction. By now, R3 is only a yard or two from the batter. Catcher goes around batter - there was absolutely no way it was BI, it was that quick - and runner retreats and runs back to 3rd. R3 pivots about 1/3 of the way up the line just as F2 tries to tag him. Just after the pivot, as he's now heading back to me, I see F2 tag him with an empty glove and clear space between R3 and the ball hand. I immediately 'safe' it and say "NO TAG" as runner scores.

 

The problem was, my partner signaled out, though very quietly. I didn't even hear him but saw him coming to me. I was absolutely sure so we stuck with the out, but it got me wondering as to who's call it was. I initially got engaged because he was within 2 yds of me when it started and it looked like we had a play at the plate. He retreated about 5 yds up the line when he returned and pivoted at the time of the near-tag. The near-tag was pretty much during the duck & pivot, so R3 wasn't clearly heading back to me or back to 3rd, leading to the double call.

 

Do I relinquish the call completely to BU once R3 heads back or is this just a crazy play that found a gray area?

[labguy1971]

Pregame this with situation such as run downs.  Typically what I do is pregame with my partner that before any call is made on a run down that invloves both of us we look at one another and touch our chest to let the other know that we have something or verbalize that we have something.  Slow it down a bit.  Pregame has helped me with plays like that on more than one occasion.

[MidAmUmp]

Generally a rundown between 3rd and home is divided half way, with exceptions for tags in the back or chest (coming to you or going away from you).

 

I don't think there's a real need to pre-game rundowns. Just communicate on the field when they occur, "I've got this half!"or "I've got this end!" (on a rundown between 1st & 2nd). When you see a tag attempt, make some eye contact, tap your chest if it's your call and then make your call. You can even do it verbally, "I've got it." or "That's you." Something like that.

[labguy1971]

Generally a rundown between 3rd and home is divided half way, with exceptions for tags in the back or chest (coming to you or going away from you).

 

I don't think there's a real need to pre-game rundowns. Just communicate on the field when they occur, "I've got this half!"or "I've got this end!" (on a rundown between 1st & 2nd). When you see a tag attempt, make some eye contact, tap your chest if it's your call and then make your call. You can even do it verbally, "I've got it." or "That's you." Something like that.

In our association, we work with different guys nearly all the time.  Get lucky to work with same guy/gal more than once.  So that is why we pregame about 16-20 things (will have to look at my sheet) to include rundowns.  Don't think it would hurt to do it pregame, but maybe if you are working with same guys/gals over and over no need to do that.  What is the harm in doing it pregame?  You nailed the communicate part and splitting of responsibilites as they are vital.

[MidAmUmp]

 

Generally a rundown between 3rd and home is divided half way, with exceptions for tags in the back or chest (coming to you or going away from you).

 

I don't think there's a real need to pre-game rundowns. Just communicate on the field when they occur, "I've got this half!"or "I've got this end!" (on a rundown between 1st & 2nd). When you see a tag attempt, make some eye contact, tap your chest if it's your call and then make your call. You can even do it verbally, "I've got it." or "That's you." Something like that.

In our association, we work with different guys nearly all the time.  Get lucky to work with same guy/gal more than once.  So that is why we pregame about 16-20 things (will have to look at my sheet) to include rundowns.  Don't think it would hurt to do it pregame, but maybe if you are working with same guys/gals over and over no need to do that.  What is the harm in doing it pregame?  You nailed the communicate part and splitting of responsibilites as they are vital.

 

Rundowns aren't frequent occurrences and are very seldom ever the same. So spending time pre-gaming what you *think* you're going to do if a rundown were to occur isn't the best use of time.

 

If I was going to pre-game about rundowns it would be this simple - 1 runner: try to box him in, communicate and make eye contact in a gray area. Multiple runners: 1 umpire take the entire rundown. 

[labguy1971]

 

 

Generally a rundown between 3rd and home is divided half way, with exceptions for tags in the back or chest (coming to you or going away from you).

 

I don't think there's a real need to pre-game rundowns. Just communicate on the field when they occur, "I've got this half!"or "I've got this end!" (on a rundown between 1st & 2nd). When you see a tag attempt, make some eye contact, tap your chest if it's your call and then make your call. You can even do it verbally, "I've got it." or "That's you." Something like that.

In our association, we work with different guys nearly all the time.  Get lucky to work with same guy/gal more than once.  So that is why we pregame about 16-20 things (will have to look at my sheet) to include rundowns.  Don't think it would hurt to do it pregame, but maybe if you are working with same guys/gals over and over no need to do that.  What is the harm in doing it pregame?  You nailed the communicate part and splitting of responsibilites as they are vital.

 

Rundowns aren't frequent occurrences and are very seldom ever the same. So spending time pre-gaming what you *think* you're going to do if a rundown were to occur isn't the best use of time.

 

If I was going to pre-game about rundowns it would be this simple - 1 runner: try to box him in, communicate and make eye contact in a gray area. Multiple runners: 1 umpire take the entire rundown. 

 

It would take all of 30-45 seconds if that, not all run down situations just what we discussed.  That is usually the problem with alot of the veteran guys (knowing it all) us new guys sometimes have to go over stuff in pregame.  My pregame with all the topics takes approx 5-10 minutes.  Not a waste of time.  But thanks for your valued input.

[maven]

I believe we have a "yeah-but" among us! Hooray.

[Thunderheads]

 

 

 

Generally a rundown between 3rd and home is divided half way, with exceptions for tags in the back or chest (coming to you or going away from you).

 

I don't think there's a real need to pre-game rundowns. Just communicate on the field when they occur, "I've got this half!"or "I've got this end!" (on a rundown between 1st & 2nd). When you see a tag attempt, make some eye contact, tap your chest if it's your call and then make your call. You can even do it verbally, "I've got it." or "That's you." Something like that.

In our association, we work with different guys nearly all the time.  Get lucky to work with same guy/gal more than once.  So that is why we pregame about 16-20 things (will have to look at my sheet) to include rundowns.  Don't think it would hurt to do it pregame, but maybe if you are working with same guys/gals over and over no need to do that.  What is the harm in doing it pregame?  You nailed the communicate part and splitting of responsibilites as they are vital.

 

Rundowns aren't frequent occurrences and are very seldom ever the same. So spending time pre-gaming what you *think* you're going to do if a rundown were to occur isn't the best use of time.

 

If I was going to pre-game about rundowns it would be this simple - 1 runner: try to box him in, communicate and make eye contact in a gray area. Multiple runners: 1 umpire take the entire rundown. 

 

It would take all of 30-45 seconds if that, not all run down situations just what we discussed.  That is usually the problem with alot of the veteran guys (knowing it all) us new guys sometimes have to go over stuff in pregame.  My pregame with all the topics takes approx 5-10 minutes.  Not a waste of time.  But thanks for your valued input.

 

So, you're agreeing with the bold?  You should be ...........

[MidAmUmp]

Generally a rundown between 3rd and home is divided half way, with exceptions for tags in the back or chest (coming to you or going away from you).

I don't think there's a real need to pre-game rundowns. Just communicate on the field when they occur, "I've got this half!"or "I've got this end!" (on a rundown between 1st & 2nd). When you see a tag attempt, make some eye contact, tap your chest if it's your call and then make your call. You can even do it verbally, "I've got it." or "That's you." Something like that.

In our association, we work with different guys nearly all the time. Get lucky to work with same guy/gal more than once. So that is why we pregame about 16-20 things (will have to look at my sheet) to include rundowns. Don't think it would hurt to do it pregame, but maybe if you are working with same guys/gals over and over no need to do that. What is the harm in doing it pregame? You nailed the communicate part and splitting of responsibilites as they are vital.

Rundowns aren't frequent occurrences and are very seldom ever the same. So spending time pre-gaming what you *think* you're going to do if a rundown were to occur isn't the best use of time.

If I was going to pre-game about rundowns it would be this simple - 1 runner: try to box him in, communicate and make eye contact in a gray area. Multiple runners: 1 umpire take the entire rundown.

It would take all of 30-45 seconds if that, not all run down situations just what we discussed. That is usually the problem with alot of the veteran guys (knowing it all) us new guys sometimes have to go over stuff in pregame. My pregame with all the topics takes approx 5-10 minutes. Not a waste of time. But thanks for your valued input.

My pre-game takes about 15 minutes and I'm a know it all...

[kylehutson]

 

Generally a rundown between 3rd and home is divided half way, with exceptions for tags in the back or chest (coming to you or going away from you).

 

I don't think there's a real need to pre-game rundowns. Just communicate on the field when they occur, "I've got this half!"or "I've got this end!" (on a rundown between 1st & 2nd). When you see a tag attempt, make some eye contact, tap your chest if it's your call and then make your call. You can even do it verbally, "I've got it." or "That's you." Something like that.

In our association, we work with different guys nearly all the time.  Get lucky to work with same guy/gal more than once.  So that is why we pregame about 16-20 things (will have to look at my sheet) to include rundowns.  Don't think it would hurt to do it pregame, but maybe if you are working with same guys/gals over and over no need to do that.  What is the harm in doing it pregame?  You nailed the communicate part and splitting of responsibilites as they are vital.

 

Any chance you could share that sheet? I'm in the same situation, and I always feel like I'm leaving something out, so having such a checklist would be useful.

[ZebraStripes]

 

My pre-game takes about 15 minutes and I'm a know it all...

 

Could I trouble you for a run down of your pre-game?  

[UmpTTS43]

As the runner is coming home, the PU has to establish best possible positioning. On a straight steal, that positioning is where you are standing as the pitch comes in. BU needs to read this play as well. With R3 only, as soon as the pitch is caught, BU needs to bust hump to position halfway between home and 3rd for possible rundown. Once the runner starts back towards 3rd, the PU can now move up the line in foul territory to assume the home half of the rundown. Once there, PU should communicate "I've got this half". BU can then slide towards 3rd and assume that half of the rundown. When a tag happens in the grey area, eye contact must be established between the crew, and what has been shared earlier, tap of the chest to take the call.

With multiple runners, you do exactly the same until R3 retreats towards 3rd giving PU and opportunity to assume half. If R3 turns towards home and enters PUs half, PU can communicate "I've got it all" releasing BU to pick up the other base runners. When that happens PU will have entire rundown including R3 back into 3rd.

[johnnyg08]

My pre-game takes about 15 minutes and I'm a know it all...

Could I trouble you for a run down of your pre-game?

I have a feeling he's shared this information in another thread. Try a search. But if you want to wait it out, he'll probably put it on here too...be ready...it's short and sweet!

[D62 blue]

 

 

My pre-game takes about 15 minutes and I'm a know it all...

 

Could I trouble you for a run down of your pre-game?  

 

here is a pre game you can use , modify to fit your particular needs .

Card Pre Game with Partner.doc

[MidAmUmp]

 

 

My pre-game takes about 15 minutes and I'm a know it all...

 

Could I trouble you for a run down of your pre-game?  

 

It depends on who I'm working with.

If it's guys I know we don't really pre-game. Usually, "Don't f**k anything up. Work hard. Have fun."

 

If it's guys I'm not used to working with it's along these lines (keep in mind this is for college level 3-man)...

• No egos. We're a team.
• Signals - I'll point with # of outs in the direction I'm going. I'll give signal to umpire in the middle, umpire in the middle with give to the wing guy.
• Time - at least 2 umpires signal time.
• No one on - U1 is the QB, key off of him. Even if U1 doesn't go out he still has fly ball. I have the touch at 1st, U1 has any throw back.
• Fly ball coverage - Deciding factor on who's fly ball is how fielder initially opens (toward right = U1, toward left = U3), same w/ runners on base, LF or RF opens towards the line... Communicate in gray area.
• I'd rather someone go out on a can of corn than not have anyone out on something that turns to s**t.
• All eyes on a ball threatening the fence or fair/foul. If we have to get together on this everyone must have an opinion. "I didn't see it/I wasn't watching" is unacceptable.
• Someone goes out on any ball threatening a fence. Go from the middle.
• Pop up by the dugout - 2 umpires on the ball when possible. Block 'em in, make eye contact in gray area, communicate before making the call.
• Balks - get them early, no warnings, don't pick a booger late in the game. Echo if you can. Calling umpire take any discussion with coach. Don't let him go to someone else.
• Check swings - give me what you have.
• Ball in the dirt on strike 3 - give me an obvious safe signal if ball is down or out signal if ball is caught (don't hide anything). If you don't know, stand there and look stupid, I'll figure it out from there.
• Getting help - If you're 100% sure, don't get together. If partner has something, take off hat and walk towards umpire. Know what we can get together on. Won't get together until coach has either gone back to dugout or coaches box.
• Appeals - know who's call, take charge (tap chest that you're taking it). 
• R3 w/ less than 2 outs, U3 has tag up unless U1 goes out. U1-decide early to go or stay. PU also can line up tag for extra set of eyes.
• R3, base umpires take all fair/foul so I can set up for potential play at the plate.
• 2 outs, is U1 coming w/ B/R or staying at 1st?
• Equipment - make sure all crap is picked up when team is on defense.
• Dugouts - shut down bench jockeying immediately. Identify suspects if someone is popping off. Only 2 on-deck hitters out of the dugout on a pitching change.
• Situations - 1-on-1, warn (more than once), eject, let them vent, warn again, suspend.
• Game is live streamed/being televised, assume a supervisor is watching.
• Work hard, have fun.

[ZebraStripes]

Thank you, I will take these two items and put something together to keep in my lineup holder.  

[Umpirechick1]

@ZebraStripes, do you really think you'll need all of that in T-ball? :)

[ZebraStripes]

After coaching my son's t-ball team when he was 4, I haven't heard anything about t-ball again.  Well we tried to do a team when he was 5, but there wasn't enough so he had to play with the 7 year olds.  That was the last year he wanted to play baseball.