Loose ball on field

[Thunderheads]

Ok, 

Yesterday at camp, one of the cage instructors (while we're waiting to get going) threw something out to us for discussion.

 

Outs, and runners don't matter necessarily;   F1 is just about to release a pitch when a stray ball comes on the field.  Do you kill it, or let it go and see what happens?

 

Discuss, and support if you can, your decision.

 

p.s.  This was a HS camp, so assume FED rules for this.  If you have support for any other rule-set however, it would be welcomed.

[Rulekeep]

I dunno, I would have the obvious choice would be to kill it. If a player doesn't see it and steps on it, they could get pretty badly hurt.

[Thunderheads]

Actually, the instructor said that he was torn on what he'd do ....

[WIUMP]

First instinct would be to kill it. (I play at a quad-complex where the fields have virtually no foul territory, are spaced very close together, and have little protective netting. It is a major safety hazard, IMO, when a ball or balls are on the field). The OBR does not provide for calling of time in this instance. From the scenario, the pitch has already begun so UIC cannot stop play except for light failure or an incapacitated player. EDIT: FED does not have the 5.10(h) caveat. I would still be inclined to kill it.

 

I'm looking at 5.10 (h). Source: mlb.com. 

 

5.10

The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls Time. The umpire-inchief shall call Time -- 
(a) When in his judgment weather, darkness or similar conditions make immediate further play impossible;
(b) When light failure makes it difficult or impossible for the umpires to follow the play;
NOTE: A league may adopt its own regulations governing games interrupted by light failure.
© When an accident incapacitates a player or an umpire;
(1) If an accident to a runner is such as to prevent him from proceeding to a base to which he is entitled, as on a home run hit out of the playing field, or an award of one or more bases, a substitute runner shall be permitted to complete the play.
(d) When a manager requests Time for a substitution, or for a conference with one of his players.
(e) When the umpire wishes to examine the ball, to consult with either manager, or for any similar cause.
(f) When a fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field.
As pertains to runners, the provisions of 7.04 © shall prevail. If a fielder after making a catch steps into a bench, but does not fall, the ball is in play and runners may advance at their own peril.
(g) When an umpire orders a player or any other person removed from the playing field.
(h) Except in the cases stated in paragraphs (b) and © (1) of this rule, no umpire shall call Time while a play is in progress.

[Majordave]

Torn?  WTF?  Did he say why?  Kill it!  Kill it!  Kill it!  No other answer is acceptable.

[Thunderheads]

Torn?  WTF?  Did he say why?  Kill it!  Kill it!  Kill it!  No other answer is acceptable.

No Dave, not WTF ...think about it....

 

F1 has basically thrown the ball, it all happens immediately - together....

 

So, ...what if the batter hits a home run?

[maven]

If the pitch hasn't happened yet, I'm not torn. Kill it, reset, off you go. The much harder case is the double down the line and the ball comes over into the same part of the field.

 

I'd handle this under OBR 3.15/FED 8-3-3-e, by the way, as a form of spectator interference. Kill it, place runners with your best guess.

[Thunderheads]

If the pitch hasn't happened yet, I'm not torn. Kill it, reset, off you go. The much harder case is the double down the line and the ball comes over into the same part of the field.

 

I'd handle this under OBR 3.15/FED 8-3-3-e, by the way, as a form of spectator interference. Kill it, place runners with your best guess.

Thanks maven ...

 

See my post above yours.   And, let me add ....... think if this as it happens so fast, you don't get time to kill it and as you notice the ball, before you get a chance, ... BOOM ..... home run.

 

caveat:  this is not an argumentative post, it's strictly for interesting discussion

[MRG9999]

I would say if the pitch wasn't delievered yet, time is called and ball is dead.  If the loose ball is not seen and does not affect play, then just remove the loose ball and play on.  If the loose ball does affect the play, then make the base award as if the loose ball did not come into play.

[catsbackr]

Don't overthink this.

 

If it happens simultaneously, let it play out.

 

If it doesn't happen simultaneously, kill it and reset.

 

If either coach gripes, tell them you'd rule exactly the same for either team.

 

(Oh and MRG9999, don't eject spectators.)

[Thunderheads]

Don't overthink this.

 

If it happens simultaneously, let it play out.

 

If it doesn't happen simultaneously, kill it and reset.

 

If either coach gripes, tell them you'd rule exactly the same for either team.

this is basically where the group fell on agreement with this .......  just thought it was something interesting to discuss as it's still -2 outside ....you know

[johnnyg08]

The few times I've worked with other games happening simultaneously and the chance exists for a ball to enter our field of play during live action, we cover it at the plate meeting and make sure we're all clear before moving forward. 

 

Come to think of it, this isn't all that uncommon.  Many of my fields have a bullpen area that is in live ball territory.  

 

Fairly often, a ball will come rolling down the fence line or has caromed into fair territory.  

[MRG9999]

Don't overthink this.

 

If it happens simultaneously, let it play out.

 

If it doesn't happen simultaneously, kill it and reset.

 

If either coach gripes, tell them you'd rule exactly the same for either team.

 

(Oh and MRG9999, don't eject spectators.)

What, take my fun away !!!      Seriously, would not even know if they did it or not.  If you had seen them do it, then you were not focus on the pitch at hand.

[Tksjewelry]

Spinoff of the original question. Ball on field, mid pitch, coach yells "ball on field" and causes the pitcher to balk.

I've ignored the balk, killed play, removed the ball, and reset but is that right to ignore the balk? We do both Fed and MLB on the four plex.

[Thunderheads]

Spinoff of the original question. Ball on field, mid pitch, coach yells "ball on field" and causes the pitcher to balk.

I've ignored the balk, killed play, removed the ball, and reset but is that right to ignore the balk? We do both Fed and MLB on the four plex.

absolutely!  Reset!

[ALStripes17]

Spinoff of the original question. Ball on field, mid pitch, coach yells "ball on field" and causes the pitcher to balk.

I've ignored the balk, killed play, removed the ball, and reset but is that right to ignore the balk? We do both Fed and MLB on the four plex.

Offensive team cannot cause a balk. Technically the coach should be warned for doing that but I'm pretty sure he would be ok with the outcome when you use common sense and not warn him.

[StrikeDavis]

I had a situation occur with a guy on second and one out the batter hits a clean single to left.  While that is playing out a girl on the adjacent softball field rips a fall ball that lands in the infield of the baseball field.  It ends up rolling into the area of third base but had no impact on the play.  The runner ends up scoring with no play at the plate since the left fielder bobbles the ball.  The discussion after the game between me and my partner was about all the different situations that could have happened if that ball had hit the runner, the third basemen setting up for a cutoff, or even the one in a trillion shot of the softball contacting the throw in from the outfielder trying to throw a runner out at home.  What would you do in those scenarios?  

[johnnyg08]

He shouldn't be penalized.  It's a reset.  Unless of course you think he's trying to cause a balk.  

 

No, do not balk that.  Ever.

[Majordave]

Okay Jeff.  Not being argumentative but your OP said, "Just as F1 is about to release the pitch a ball comes on the field" or words to that affect.

 

That told me that it was potentially affecting play before the pitch.  So I kill it.  Always.

 

Now, if the pitch has been released, then ball on the field and Batter smokes a home run I probably don't see or hear the ball on field and let it go.  A screaming line drive directly to a fielder with no possible follow-on play.  I probably don't see it or hear the ball on field call and let it go.  Anything else I kill it because of the potential for the ball on field to interfere with a play.  Even if in the outfield or dead ball territory as outfielders may encounter it on the way to back up a base or each other, other fielders may lose focus looking at the ball on field and miss an errant throw, step in front of a runner or a base, a runner may step on it, etc.   Too much bad can happen.   The two "let it go" scenarios I mentioned essentially make the location of the ball a non-issue, assuming the errant ball was not near the fielder making a play on the line drive or attempting to catch the homerun ball at the fence.

 

I am sure there are some other scenarios that may come into play but for the sake of your "what if"/"hotstove" rules discussion.  That's what I have.  

 

Let the second-guessing begin!

[noumpere]

I had a situation occur with a guy on second and one out the batter hits a clean single to left.  While that is playing out a girl on the adjacent softball field rips a fall ball that lands in the infield of the baseball field.  It ends up rolling into the area of third base but had no impact on the play.  The runner ends up scoring with no play at the plate since the left fielder bobbles the ball.  The discussion after the game between me and my partner was about all the different situations that could have happened if that ball had hit the runner, the third basemen setting up for a cutoff, or even the one in a trillion shot of the softball contacting the throw in from the outfielder trying to throw a runner out at home.  What would you do in those scenarios?  

Your two choices really are to kill it and assess what would have happened (award bases and/or outs) or leave it live.

 

I'd treat it as the PBUC says to treat a ball (not a pitch) that hits a bird in flight.

[Tksjewelry]

@Thunderheads @ALStripes17 @johnny08 thanks. Good to know I did it right. It will come up again I'm sure.

[johnnyg08]

@Thunderheads @ALStripes17 @johnny08 thanks. Good to know I did it right. It will come up again I'm sure.

 

Nice job.

[Rich Ives]

If the "real" ball is in play let the play continue. 99.44% of the time everyone knows which is the real ball. The other 0.56% someone will tell the person that doesn't know which one is real that he's playing the wrong ball.

[TheRockawayKid]

First instinct would be to kill it. (I play at a quad-complex where the fields have virtually no foul territory, are spaced very close together, and have little protective netting. It is a major safety hazard, IMO, when a ball or balls are on the field). The OBR does not provide for calling of time in this instance. From the scenario, the pitch has already begun so UIC cannot stop play except for light failure or an incapacitated player. EDIT: FED does not have the 5.10(h) caveat. I would still be inclined to kill it.

 

I'm looking at 5.10 (h). Source: mlb.com. 

 

5.10

The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls Time. The umpire-inchief shall call Time -- 

(a) When in his judgment weather, darkness or similar conditions make immediate further play impossible;

(b) When light failure makes it difficult or impossible for the umpires to follow the play;

NOTE: A league may adopt its own regulations governing games interrupted by light failure.

© When an accident incapacitates a player or an umpire;

(1) If an accident to a runner is such as to prevent him from proceeding to a base to which he is entitled, as on a home run hit out of the playing field, or an award of one or more bases, a substitute runner shall be permitted to complete the play.

(d) When a manager requests Time for a substitution, or for a conference with one of his players.

(e) When the umpire wishes to examine the ball, to consult with either manager, or for any similar cause.

(f) When a fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field.

As pertains to runners, the provisions of 7.04 © shall prevail. If a fielder after making a catch steps into a bench, but does not fall, the ball is in play and runners may advance at their own peril.

(g) When an umpire orders a player or any other person removed from the playing field.

(h) Except in the cases stated in paragraphs (b) and © (1) of this rule, no umpire shall call Time while a play is in progress.

 

Counterpoint: Rule 9.01c

 

Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.

 

MLB fields -- even in Spring Training -- don't have the problem that you're likely to encounter here. The closest thing I can think of is a play when a baseball from the Reds bullpen escaped on the field in the middle of play. In that situation, the umpires let the play stand, despite a confused runner being thrown out. 

 

However, since the play hasn't exactly started, kill it immediately. Come out screaming "TIME TIME NO PITCH NO PITCH!" and the batter won't even think of swinging. 

 

FED has a similar rule, by the way. 

[conbo61]

First instinct would be to kill it. (I play at a quad-complex where the fields have virtually no foul territory, are spaced very close together, and have little protective netting. It is a major safety hazard, IMO, when a ball or balls are on the field). The OBR does not provide for calling of time in this instance. From the scenario, the pitch has already begun so UIC cannot stop play except for light failure or an incapacitated player. EDIT: FED does not have the 5.10(h) caveat. I would still be inclined to kill it.

I'm looking at 5.10 (h). Source: mlb.com.

5.10

The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls Time. The umpire-inchief shall call Time --

(a) When in his judgment weather, darkness or similar conditions make immediate further play impossible;

(b) When light failure makes it difficult or impossible for the umpires to follow the play;

NOTE: A league may adopt its own regulations governing games interrupted by light failure.

© When an accident incapacitates a player or an umpire;

(1) If an accident to a runner is such as to prevent him from proceeding to a base to which he is entitled, as on a home run hit out of the playing field, or an award of one or more bases, a substitute runner shall be permitted to complete the play.

(d) When a manager requests Time for a substitution, or for a conference with one of his players.

(e) When the umpire wishes to examine the ball, to consult with either manager, or for any similar cause.

(f) When a fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field.

As pertains to runners, the provisions of 7.04 © shall prevail. If a fielder after making a catch steps into a bench, but does not fall, the ball is in play and runners may advance at their own peril.

(g) When an umpire orders a player or any other person removed from the playing field.

(h) Except in the cases stated in paragraphs (b) and © (1) of this rule, no umpire shall call Time while a play is in progress.

Counterpoint: Rule 9.01c

Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.

MLB fields -- even in Spring Training -- don't have the problem that you're likely to encounter here. The closest thing I can think of is a play when a baseball from the Reds bullpen escaped on the field in the middle of play. In that situation, the umpires let the play stand, despite a confused runner being thrown out.

However, since the play hasn't exactly started, kill it immediately. Come out screaming "TIME TIME NO PITCH NO PITCH!" and the batter won't even think of swinging.

FED has a similar rule, by the way.

On the play in your video, I am wondering why the 2B umpire did not immediately kill it after the play at 2B. I imagine he saw the second ball on the field.