First 2 "real" ejections this summer...

[magna929]

I've ejected a few runners for bowling over the catcher at home plate, but today I had to eject 2 fans.

 

11u championship game, OBR with a few modifications.  I'm in the field, R3, nobody out in the top of the second.  Uncaught third strike goes to the backstop, catcher gets it and throws to first and gets the runner at first base.  R3 breaks for home on the throw to first, so the first baseman tries to throw home to get the runner.  However the batter-runner is in fair territory outside his running lane and collides with the first baseman as he throws home.  I call the interference on the batter-runner and call R3 out on the play [7.09(e)]

 

I return to my position in A and a fan starts cursing and calling me names.  I ignore the first 2 or 3 objections but he continues his rant.  I call time and dump him.  He then gives me a few more lines with the help of his (presumably) wife, so I dump her too.  They leave to the parking lot and both coaches are warned.  The rest of the game goes fine, final score is 10-1.

 

Comments? Opinions?

 

Theoretically if the runner had been in his lane, would this still be interference? The comment on 7.09e seems like it would not be.

[maven]

Continuing to run the bases is not in itself INT, as 7.09(e) CMT states. A retired runner crashing into a fielder who is continuing to play on runners is. That's at least INT, and very likely MC (depending on the modifications to OBR).

 

The running lane has nothing to do with this play whatsoever, once the BR has been put out.

[umpstu]

Continuing to run the bases is not in itself INT, as 7.09(e) CMT states. A retired runner crashing into a fielder who is continuing to play on runners is. That's at least INT, and very likely MC (depending on the modifications to OBR).

 

The running lane has nothing to do with this play whatsoever, once the BR has been put out.

Agreed

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I would disagree that you had "real" ejections. As umpires we have no real control over spectators. That is the purview of game administration. Just one man's opinion.

[DVA7130]

Interference by an offensive teammate.

Good call.

[BaltimoreUmpire]

I would disagree that you had "real" ejections. As umpires we have no real control over spectators. That is the purview of game administration. Just one man's opinion.

Am i misunderstanding this, are we not allowed to toss fans? Im not sure if thats what you mean

[ricka56]

 

I would disagree that you had "real" ejections. As umpires we have no real control over spectators. That is the purview of game administration. Just one man's opinion.

Am i misunderstanding this, are we not allowed to toss fans? Im not sure if thats what you mean

 

Spectators cussing at a youth baseball game have to go. I wouldn't call it an EJ. EJ is what happens to players/coaches sometimes. But I understand (and wouldn't nitpick) the term being used for what happened to these a-holes..

[Replacematt]

Handle fans through the coaches. Nothing good will result from you doing it yourself. If a coach doesn't take care of it upon demand, toss him and find someone who will.

[renegadewolf]

Unless your specific association has a provision for tossing a fan, there are no rules within OBR for sure to toss a fan. Doing a game in a tourney yesterday, my young partner behind the dish, in the 5th inning started engaging one of the parents hanging out behind the backstop.  I could see he was becoming rather upset and as i was walking in he makes the tossing motion and become fairly animated.  I got his attention and peeled him away from the fan and walked up the line with him to try and cool him down and figure out what the issue was.  Tuhrns out the parent was barking about every pitch that didn't go his kids way (surprise surprise his kid was pitching) and he had just gotten frustrated.  While I told him there was no rule that allowed us to toss a parent (except maybe 9.01© but that's kind of a stretch, I wasn't going to throw him under the bus or make him change his call, but we agreed to talk to the coach of the parents kid and had him move the parent back away from the backstop.  To make matters even more absurd the an AC from the other team when I get back to first looks at me and says "You know when you guys toss a parent one of the coaches has to go too, but I'm not gonna push it".  Just rolled my eyes and we went back to a smooth game

[maineump]

I have INT here.

 

As far as the fans go, you can stop the game and put the fan actions onto the game administrator, if needed. The crowd control is up to them. I have never 'ejected' a fan, but have talked to an administrator to take care of the problem. This person can either be the coach, TD, school admin, stadium staff etc.

[BigUmpire]

It is our job to maintain control of the game.

 

If in your opinion a fan OUTSIDE the fence is interfering with the flow and/or control by the umpires by making enough ruckus that is noticed by the players INSIDE the fence it is your responsibility to stop this by all means available. If your authority and credibility are being questioned YOU could lose control of the game.  

 

I generally warn the fan and let the coach TRY to handle it, if he cannot the person is gone by me getting really worked up and giving this person a BIG heave ho with all involved watching. I want to send a message (100  monkey theory). When I have done this in the past most involved calm down really fast.

This is not a personal thing BUT when your authority and credibility are degraded you will not have the ability to control the game.

 

I DO NOT NEED A RULE to do this, it’s my job.

 

 

Bumper stickers:

• “ If you have 100 monkeys misbehaving, KILL ONE, watch the rest of them straighten upâ€- Bigumpire

 

• “Keep running the malcontents until you have only happy, well behaved people around you.â€-Bigumpire

[maven]

Interference by an offensive teammate.

Good call.

 

Careful: this is INT by a retired runner, 7.09(e).

 

A different rule concerns INT by a teammate, such as the on-deck batter who hinders the defense while signaling the runner to slide at HP. 7.09(d)

 

The difference is important because a retired runner gets more leeway than an offensive teammate.

[Daniel]

Please, oh please do not become one of THOSE guys who "eject" fans.

 

Maybe I am sadistic ba$tard, but fans who act like this usually get a quick, but visible chuckle from me.  When I won't take their bait...silience occurs.  Thank goodness for that fence tho.  Use at your own risk.  If they become too much a nusance, placing both teams in the dugout until the offender leave will also solve your problem.

 

Today a pissy fan kept motioning for me to come to the fence so he could talk to me about my strike zone....

[ricka56]

Please, oh please do not become one of THOSE guys who "eject" fans. huh ? what ?  you don't have abuse spectators at youth baseball games removed ?

 

Maybe I am sadistic ba$tard, but fans who act like this usually get a quick, but visible chuckle from me.  When I won't take their bait...silience occurs. bull$#!+, if you let them continue to be abusive, they will never stop  Thank goodness for that fence tho.  Use at your own risk.  If they become too much a nusance, placing both teams in the dugout until the offender leave will also solve your problem. oh, so you do have abusive fans removed, you just don't want to call it an ejection. This is a distinction without a difference.

 

Today a pissy fan kept motioning for me to come to the fence so he could talk to me about my strike zone....

[MikeSafari]

At least in Ontario, we are not allowed to dump fans as they're beyond our jurisdiction.

 

That being said, we do have a handy little workaround: if we decide that a fan needs to be removed, we can call time and tell the manager of whichever team the spectator is supporting that he has five minutes to remove said spectator. If, after his five minutes are up, the spectator remains then the coach gets dumped and we move on to assistant coaches. This keeps going until the team has no coaches left, at which point the game is forfeit.

 

We do also warn the coaches that they will be ejected after five minutes if the spectator remains, and this usually prevents us from having to eject coaches. Who wants to be responsible for getting their kid's coach ejected when the coach hasn't done anything deserving of it?

[FleasOf1000Camels]

My $.02 worth.

A.  The running lane does NOT even enter into this scenario.

B.  If, however the retired runner interfered with F3's attempt to make a throw INT is perfectly justified.

My guess (especially from the way you worded the OP) is that you used the "running lane violation" in justifying your call...and in so doing you stepped in a big pile of doo-doo.

 

Now, with regard to dumping fans.  This is America.  When a fan buys a ticket to the ball park (or pays his kid's entry fee, etc) I believe he has certain inalienable rights, among them is the right to heckle the umpire.  If your skin in so thin that you can't handle it, you'd better reconsider your desire to continue.

 

Is there a point at which fan abuse goes so far that it can't be ignored?  Absolutely, but it ought to be handled through the coach or park management.  In 30+ years, I've only dumped a fan once...and that was when he came on the field and took a swing at his own team's coach.

[ricka56]

Is there a point at which fan abuse goes so far that it can't be ignored?  Absolutely, but it ought to be handled through the coach or park management.  In 30+ years, I've only dumped a fan once...

 

I can't remember having a fan removed even once, but I can recall several times (though rare) when I told the HC to warn the loud mouth that the game would be suspended the next time he misbehaved, and not resumed until he was gone. That has always worked...so far.

 

...and that was when he came on the field and took a swing at his own team's coach.

 

I can't imagine what effect EJ'g a physical assailant would have that other spectators, game management or LE couldn't handle. I would have just suspended the game until he was gone. 

[FleasOf1000Camels]

Some of our brothers seem to think of ejections as if they were merit badges. 

I don't see it that way. 

Whenever I do find it necessary to dump somebody, my POST game talk with my partner always seem to revolve around this basic question; "was there anything I could have done better/different that might have kept that ejection from becoming necessary?"

Don't get me wrong, I'll dump them if they need to go, but it's a last resort.

 

Again, as far as fans are concerned...NOT MY PROBLEM.

I prefer to focus my attention on what's going on INSIDE the field of play...unless (of course) we're trolling for MILFs. 

[ump-n-ref]

My $.02 worth.

A.  The running lane does NOT even enter into this scenario.

B.  If, however the retired runner interfered with F3's attempt to make a throw INT is perfectly justified.

My guess (especially from the way you worded the OP) is that you used the "running lane violation" in justifying your call...and in so doing you stepped in a big pile of doo-doo.

 

Now, with regard to dumping fans.  This is America.  When a fan buys a ticket to the ball park (or pays his kid's entry fee, etc) I believe he has certain inalienable rights, among them is the right to heckle the umpire.  If your skin in so thin that you can't handle it, you'd better reconsider your desire to continue.

 

Is there a point at which fan abuse goes so far that it can't be ignored?  Absolutely, but it ought to be handled through the coach or park management.  In 30+ years, I've only dumped a fan once...and that was when he came on the field and took a swing at his own team's coach.

"When a fan ... I believe he has ... the right to heckle the umpire" -- Absolutely wrong!  Either HS or HS age, this is a contest that involves teaching sportsmanship and our job is to maintain both the integrity of the game and insure that the spirit of the game be adhered to. A heckiling fan transmits that attitude to the players (It's not my fault I looked at 3rd strike, the umpire screwed me). Until you are doing a professional game, let's remember: This is RECREATIONAL baseball. If a fan is wound too tight or thinks the game is all about his abusive opinions then that team's management needs to get him to the parking lot to unwind.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

@ump-n-ref.  We shall simply agree to disagree.

Fans are not part of the game, and not my problem.

[catsbackr]

It is our job to maintain control of the game.

If in your opinion a fan OUTSIDE the fence is interfering with the flow and/or control by the umpires by making enough ruckus that is noticed by the players INSIDE the fence it is your responsibility to stop this by all means available. If your authority and credibility are being questioned YOU could lose control of the game.

I generally warn the fan and let the coach TRY to handle it, if he cannot the person is gone by me getting really worked up and giving this person a BIG heave ho with all involved watching. I want to send a message (100 monkey theory). When I have done this in the past most involved calm down really fast.

This is not a personal thing BUT when your authority and credibility are degraded you will not have the ability to control the game.

I DO NOT NEED A RULE to do this, it’s my job.

Bumper stickers:

• “ If you have 100 monkeys misbehaving, KILL ONE, watch the rest of them straighten upâ€- Bigumpire

• “Keep running the malcontents until you have only happy, well behaved people around you.â€-Bigumpire

You have no authority or jurisdiction over fans or outside the field of play. None, zero.

If you think you do, you are simply making up rules.

Edited October 9, 2014 by catsbackr

[BigUmpire]

 

It is our job to maintain control of the game.

If in your opinion a fan OUTSIDE the fence is interfering with the flow and/or control by the umpires by making enough ruckus that is noticed by the players INSIDE the fence it is your responsibility to stop this by all means available. If your authority and credibility are being questioned YOU could lose control of the game.

I generally warn the fan and let the coach TRY to handle it, if he cannot the person is gone by me getting really worked up and giving this person a BIG heave ho with all involved watching. I want to send a message (100 monkey theory). When I have done this in the past most involved calm down really fast.

This is not a personal thing BUT when your authority and credibility are degraded you will not have the ability to control the game.

I DO NOT NEED A RULE to do this, it’s my job.

Bumper stickers:

• “ If you have 100 monkeys misbehaving, KILL ONE, watch the rest of them straighten upâ€- Bigumpire

• “Keep running the malcontents until you have only happy, well behaved people around you.â€-Bigumpire

You have no authority or jurisdiction over fans or outside the field of play. None, zero.

If you think you do, you are simply making up rules.

 

OK

[BaltimoreUmpire]

It is our job to maintain control of the game.

If in your opinion a fan OUTSIDE the fence is interfering with the flow and/or control by the umpires by making enough ruckus that is noticed by the players INSIDE the fence it is your responsibility to stop this by all means available. If your authority and credibility are being questioned YOU could lose control of the game.

I generally warn the fan and let the coach TRY to handle it, if he cannot the person is gone by me getting really worked up and giving this person a BIG heave ho with all involved watching. I want to send a message (100 monkey theory). When I have done this in the past most involved calm down really fast.

This is not a personal thing BUT when your authority and credibility are degraded you will not have the ability to control the game.

I DO NOT NEED A RULE to do this, it’s my job.

Bumper stickers:

• “ If you have 100 monkeys misbehaving, KILL ONE, watch the rest of them straighten upâ€- Bigumpire

• “Keep running the malcontents until you have only happy, well behaved people around you.â€-Bigumpire

You have no authority or jurisdiction over fans or outside the field of play. None, zero.

If you think you do, you are simply making up rules. Seeing this debate makes me happy that I have authority outside the playing field because we wrote that directly into our leagues rules. In all leagues(but one small one I work with) around here umpires are granted complete jurisdiction over spectators and the area outside the playing field. I feel bad for those who aren't granted these powers its important that you have powers over spectators otherwise who is in charge of them other than coaches? Can they really control fans or more importantly do they? There might not be rules support universally but thats a rule that should exist.

[catsbackr]

Well, we are in opposite camps then.

I have more than enough to worry about inside the fence. I have no interest in being a police officer.

[zm1283]

Well, we are in opposite camps then.

I have more than enough to worry about inside the fence. I have no interest in being a police officer.

 

Yep. Unless they're interfering in the game itself, leave it alone and let whoever is in charge of the facility/school/etc handle it.