hidden ball trick question

[berns_97]

Ok im new here. And sorry for this being so long. I Started umpiring last year at the age of 15. Now im umpiring this season. So let me just say the whole play and what happened. So this kid hits a line Drive to right center. But since the kid is fast he makes to to second safely. The second baseman caught the ball and pretended to throw it back to the pitcher. Me seeing wat is about to happen i keep my body to where i can see a possible play. Thats when the runner steps off the base and gets tagged at which point i call him out. When i turn back The coach is on the field and saying that he called time and that that play shouldnt coint. I then go to my partner and asked him if he called time which he didnt and then we discussd what to do. After talking i decided to not count the tag as an out due to the coach being on the field .

Did i make the right call

[BigUmpire]

Did you or your partner GRANT time?

[Mike Prince]

If you or your partner did not grant time, the coach is on the field improperly.  Your discussion with your partner should have also included what the pitcher was doing during the play.

 

IMO the out should have stood and the coach given a warning.

[JaxRolo]

If your partner didn't call time then that's an out. Players do not call time. Umpires do.

What rule set is this?

[BigUmpire]

Classic crap coaches pull on young umpires.

[BigUmpire]

Where was the pitcher when the tag was applied?

[johnnyg08]

The coach should run on the field on every ground out to the shortstop.

Should've stuck w/ the out. Live and learn

[JaxRolo]

Should have dumped the coach for running on the field during a live ball.

[ricka56]

What other have been referring to is if the pitchers was on/astride the rubber (rules codes vary), then this tag would have been illegal.

 

As other have said, coaches don't call time. They can only request it.

 

Good job staying with the ball...seeing the play. Not so good letting coach bamboozle you...I doubt you'll let that happen again.

[th3]

What other have been referring to is if the pitchers was on/astride the rubber (rules codes vary), then this tag would have been illegal.

 

As other have said, coaches don't call time. They can only request it.

 

Good job staying with the ball...seeing the play. Not so good letting coach bamboozle you...I doubt you'll let that happen again.

and that would be a balk and runner to 3rd, right?

[Mike Prince]

 

What other have been referring to is if the pitchers was on/astride the rubber (rules codes vary), then this tag would have been illegal.

 

As other have said, coaches don't call time. They can only request it.

 

Good job staying with the ball...seeing the play. Not so good letting coach bamboozle you...I doubt you'll let that happen again.

and that would be a balk and runner to 3rd, right?

 

Correct, but seeing it doesn't look like the OP or his partner was watching F1, we will never know if it applies here.

[Stan W.]

welcome to the site.........you got a lot of good responses from above, and in my opinion, as long as your partner dd not grant time to the coach, you should have stood with the out......good job for staying with the play!......

 

my favorite quote is

 

" experience in umpiring comes from good judgment, unfortunately that experience can come from past bad judgment".........so what did you learn from this play?

 

• You were spot on to follow the ball and not give up on the play
• Coach does not call time, he requests it.......and if not granted, it doesn't happen
• You and partner were not on the same page rule wise.....(cover these things in pregame conference)
• trust your training

all in all, keep up the good work....

[berns_97]

Thank u for replying. My partner and i did not call time. The pitcher was not on the rubber but on the side of the mound. My partner did give the coach a warning.

But thanks for the feedback. Now i know what to do if it ever happens again. Its that i was caught off guard and i have never read anything like that happening. Not online or anywhere.

[LRZ]

berns_97, here are several ways to augment your practical experience ("now I know what to do next time"). (1) Besides studying the rules, read casebooks and other material that outline plays and rulings. (2) If possible, attend clinics. (3) If there is an older/more experienced umpire you admire for his game management skills, good sense, or knowledge of the rules, see if he would mentor you, even if that just means asking him a question now and then.

 

Good luck--it sounds like you are on the right track--you are thinking about what happens in your games and learning from those incidents.

[UMP45]

Also know what rule set you are working. Different rule sets have different places that put the pitcher in jeopardy of balking. Keep learning. 

[berns_97]

I have read PBUC book and has helped me a lot. I also do have someone here to help me. He just did the detroit tigers minnisota twins game 2 weeks ago, but during this incident he was not my partner and the partner i had does thing the "old school" way

[BigUmpire]

Trick plays.

Fun reading.

 

http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

[maven]

Trick plays.

Fun reading.

 

http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

Thanks for the link. Intriguing that the "Trick Play Heaven" coach divided his own trick plays into "ethical" and "unethical" plays.

 

Of the "ethical" plays, the "Rainbow play" constitutes verbal obstruction in FED per 2.22.1 A. I would say the "Phantom Ball off Catcher" does as well.

[grayhawk]

Just curious.  Is this thread a trick question about a hidden ball, or a question about the hidden ball trick?  

[berns_97]

It is a question about a hidden ball trick situation that happened to me during a game

[tjwoelfel13]

First off, Welcome to the boards.  As many already have said the umpires are the only ones who grant time, anyone else who is participating in the game requests time.  I think that the out call should stand as neither you or your partner called time and therefor the ball is live and the runners are liable to be put out. As for the coach a warning needs to be issued and possibly more depending on his/her attitude.  

 

I think it is great that you went to your partner when you weren't sure about the rule. That is why they are there.  However never let a coach bully his/her way into making you go for help or into changing your call.  If they try that it is time for them to be somewhere else. Especially with you being a minor.  I started umpiring at 15 and am 19 now so I know how it's like to be a young umpire because I am one.  

 

Keep your head up and umpire on.  

[grayhawk]

It is a question about a hidden ball trick situation that happened to me during a game

 

I know.  Just thought the thread title was funny since it could be read two ways.  I'm weird like that.

[berns_97]

Ohh hahaha ok

[spiritump]

Ok im new here. And sorry for this being so long. I Started umpiring last year at the age of 15. Now im umpiring this season. So let me just say the whole play and what happened. So this kid hits a line Drive to right center. But since the kid is fast he makes to to second safely. The second baseman caught the ball and pretended to throw it back to the pitcher. Me seeing wat is about to happen i keep my body to where i can see a possible play. Thats when the runner steps off the base and gets tagged at which point i call him out. When i turn back The coach is on the field and saying that he called time and that that play shouldnt coint. I then go to my partner and asked him if he called time which he didnt and then we discussd what to do. After talking i decided to not count the tag as an out due to the coach being on the field .

Did i make the right call

 

you made the wrong call; but you learned a great lesson--ALL COACHES ARE RATS

[Richvee]

FED requires the pitcher to be approximately 5 feet from the rubber without the ball for this to be legal. (6-2-5)

 

I believe OBR is just not "on or astride the rubber"(8.05(i))