Obstruction on a pickoff....?

[BT_Blue]

By the way... WAR STORY ALERT!

Last year in the District Playoffs here in SW Washington, I had a play simular to what we are talking about. I am U1 in a three man crew. R1 only. F1 jumps and tries to pickoff R1 but the ball gets past F3 and up the RF line. F3 trying to catch the throw dives for it and lands on top of R1 diving back to the bag. R1 tries to get back up and in doing so gets hung up by F3 laying on him and trying to get up as well. There is no pushing or anything like that that would make me think he was obstructing R1, who gets up and successfully makes it to second in front of the throw from F9.

Offensive HC comes out to argue for OBS and gets the "in my judgement, there was no OBS" answer from me.

Later, while reviewing the game with my partners and other umpires watching the game, the consensus was that I should have indeed called OBS and given R1 second base without liability to be put out (obviously delaying a dead ball call until playing action was over.)

Something that I will make sure to call from now on. The idea made stronger from a local umpire this last October on St. Louis.

[UmpTTS43]

Isn't this obstruction in NCAA as well.

Pick-off play the player needs to have the ball - on other plays he just has to be in the act of fielding right?

This is correct. Although a fielder may be in the act of fielding a throw during a pick off, under NCAA interpretations, a fielder may not block the base, drop a knee. This would be OBS under NCAA.

[JaxRolo]

By the way... WAR STORY ALERT!

Last year in the District Playoffs here in SW Washington, I had a play simular to what we are talking about. I am U1 in a three man crew. R1 only. F1 jumps and tries to pickoff R1 but the ball gets past F3 and up the RF line. F3 trying to catch the throw dives for it and lands on top of R1 diving back to the bag. R1 tries to get back up and in doing so gets hung up by F3 laying on him and trying to get up as well. There is no pushing or anything like that that would make me think he was obstructing R1, who gets up and successfully makes it to second in front of the throw from F9.

Offensive HC comes out to argue for OBS and gets the "in my judgement, there was no OBS" answer from me.

Later, while reviewing the game with my partners and other umpires watching the game, the consensus was that I should have indeed called OBS and given R1 second base without liability to be put out (obviously delaying a dead ball call until playing action was over.)

Something that I will make sure to call from now on. The idea made stronger from a local umpire this last October on St. Louis.

I agree that this should be OBS at any level.

[Jglopez7]

 

I know it's little league but here is a good example.

[maven]

I know it's little league but here is a good example.

 

Good example of what? I don't see OBS under OBR/LL, and the runner appeared to be safe.

 

Good example of an umpire who just learned a rule, maybe.

[JaxRolo]

 

I know it's little league but here is a good example.

 

Good example of what? I don't see OBS under OBR/LL, and the runner appeared to be safe.

 

Good example of an umpire who just learned a rule, maybe.

 

We kinda determined that the safe or out didn't make a difference?

 

So someone help me clarify the OBR rule on this. If this had been FED there is no doubt it is OBS.

[noumpere]

 

 

I know it's little league but here is a good example.

 

Good example of what? I don't see OBS under OBR/LL, and the runner appeared to be safe.

 

Good example of an umpire who just learned a rule, maybe.

 

We kinda determined that the safe or out didn't make a difference?

 

So someone help me clarify the OBR rule on this. If this had been FED there is no doubt it is OBS.

 

It's not OBS in FED.  Clearly the fielder gave the runner access to the base.

[JaxRolo]

 

 

 

I know it's little league but here is a good example.

 

Good example of what? I don't see OBS under OBR/LL, and the runner appeared to be safe.

 

Good example of an umpire who just learned a rule, maybe.

 

We kinda determined that the safe or out didn't make a difference?

 

So someone help me clarify the OBR rule on this. If this had been FED there is no doubt it is OBS.

 

It's not OBS in FED.  Clearly the fielder gave the runner access to the base.

 

Not in my opinion.

[Jglopez7]

 

 

 

I know it's little league but here is a good example.

 

Good example of what? I don't see OBS under OBR/LL, and the runner appeared to be safe.

 

Good example of an umpire who just learned a rule, maybe.

 

We kinda determined that the safe or out didn't make a difference?

 

So someone help me clarify the OBR rule on this. If this had been FED there is no doubt it is OBS.

 

It's not OBS in FED.  Clearly the fielder gave the runner access to the base.

 

But did he have the ball prior to

 

 

 

 

 

I know it's little league but here is a good example.

 

Good example of what? I don't see OBS under OBR/LL, and the runner appeared to be safe.

 

Good example of an umpire who just learned a rule, maybe.

 

We kinda determined that the safe or out didn't make a difference?

 

So someone help me clarify the OBR rule on this. If this had been FED there is no doubt it is OBS.

 

It's not OBS in FED.  Clearly the fielder gave the runner access to the base.

 

Not in my opinion.

 

Did the first baseman have the ball prior to putting his left foot in front of the bag? Positioning his body in front of the bag...1st baseman are coached to straddle the bag to avoid this judgment call.

[JaxRolo]

His whole foot was blocking the bag without the ball. OBS all day long in FED. In my "judgement"

[Jglopez7]

His whole foot was blocking the bag without the ball. OBS all day long in FED. In my "judgement"

Aren't we all perfect virtual umpires?

[maven]

His whole foot was blocking the bag without the ball. OBS all day long in FED. In my "judgement"

 

FED:

That's not OBS unless he completely denies access to any part of the base. A youth fielder's foot cannot do that. The runner is not entitled to his "preferred access" to the base: it's OBS only if ALL access is denied. The runner in the video slid into the base safely, so pretty obviously his access was not completely denied.

 

I will also add that if you're not applying the correct standard for OBS, you don't get to call that misinterpretation "judgment" to deflect an argument.

 

 

OBR:

You asked about OBR: the fielder is permitted to block the base if he is in the act of fielding the throw. Pretty clearly in this video, F3 was doing just that, so no OBS.

[grayhawk]

For that video, I don't have OBS in FED, but I probably do in LL.  LL requires the fielder to give access to the entire bag, not just part of it.  I guarantee U1 had been watching F3 and decided he would call it if he did the same thing when a throw went there.

[JaxRolo]

I am looking at it as a HS Varsity FED not as the LL munchkins.

 

Yes I agree on the must give access to part of the bag. Most likely I will call it on any of my Varsity Games and probably JV

[sdix00]

Today I learned it is physically impossible to Obstruct with anything less than a size 15 shoe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[blue23ll]

Just because the runner decided to slide into the F3's foot, doesn't give me obstruction, in FED or OBR. There was ample bag for that runner to use.

[conbo61]

OK - a couple of variations on the theme...

 

1.  R1 and R3. F1 attempts a PO and F3 drops his leg to block the bag.  U1 calls OBS.  On the turn, R3 breaks for home and scores.

 

Where to place R3?

 

2.  R1. F1 attempts a PO and F3 drops his leg to block the bag.  U1 calls OBS.  Ball ticks off of F3's glove and rolls to the side fence.  R1 sees the ball get away and takes off for 2B.  The alert F9 was backing up and fires to F6 where R1 is tagged out.

 

Where to place R1?

 

3.  R1 and R3. F1 attempts a PO and F3 drops his leg to block the bag.  U1 calls OBS.  Ball ticks off of F3's glove and rolls to the side fence.  R1 sees the ball get away and takes off for 2B while R3 scores.  The alert F9 was backing up and fires to F6 where R1 is tagged out.

 

Where to place R1 and R3?

 

It seems the discussion (and a great one it has been) covered all rule sets.  Please cite your rule set with your answer.

[Dash Riprock]

OK - a couple of variations on the theme...

 

1.  R1 and R3. F1 attempts a PO and F3 drops his leg to block the bag.  U1 calls OBS.  On the turn, R3 breaks for home and scores.

 

Where to place R3?

 

2.  R1. F1 attempts a PO and F3 drops his leg to block the bag.  U1 calls OBS.  Ball ticks off of F3's glove and rolls to the side fence.  R1 sees the ball get away and takes off for 2B.  The alert F9 was backing up and fires to F6 where R1 is tagged out.

 

Where to place R1?

 

3.  R1 and R3. F1 attempts a PO and F3 drops his leg to block the bag.  U1 calls OBS.  Ball ticks off of F3's glove and rolls to the side fence.  R1 sees the ball get away and takes off for 2B while R3 scores.  The alert F9 was backing up and fires to F6 where R1 is tagged out.

 

Where to place R1 and R3?

 

It seems the discussion (and a great one it has been) covered all rule sets.  Please cite your rule set with your answer.

1.  FED:  The ball stays live (delayed dead if you will).  At the end of action, R3 is placed wherever the umps think he would have wound up absent the OBS.  NCAA:  Same as FED except the ball is dead immediately.  OBR:  No OBS.

 

2.  FED:  Dead ball when R1 is tagged out.  He is awarded 2nd base.  NCAA:  Dead ball on the OBS,  R1 awarded 2nd base.  OBR:  No OBS.

 

3.  FED:  Dead ball when R1 is tagged out at 2nd.   R1 awarded 2nd, R3 (probably but not mandatory) awarded home.  NCAA:  Same as FED except the ball is dead on the OBS.  OBR:  No OBS.

[JaxRolo]

There is no more to be said.

Dash covered all of it.

[mstaylor]

Good to see you Dash

[mrumpiresir]

Forget intent.  Was the runner obstructed, or hindered in any way?  Make your call when you see it, and apply the penalty.