Why have anything but a Plate Man in MLB anymore?

[jkumpire]

I am confused about the new MLB replay rules, b/on: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9975837/major-league-baseball-move-ahead-instant-replay

 

As I read about them, any and everything is up for review now, except for ball/strike, check swings and foul tips.

 

So why do we need base umpires anymore?

 

Anytime there is a wacker, a sinking line drive catch/no catch someone is going to question it, so why have a middleman? Just have the PU hit a button and some ex-MLB guy in NYC can look at eighteen replays of the call until he can get it right.

 

Also with two challenges per team per game anything that is close will be replayed in a crucial situation, even if to allow the reflief pitcher an extra minute of warm-up tosses to get ready. It just seems awful to me, to all this mess 'get more plays right'.

 

Comments? 

[Mr Umpire]

Now, they don't need to look for the best of the group except who has a good strike zone.  This will make the evaluators job a lot easier in PBUC.

[Thunderheads]

I am confused about the new MLB replay rules, b/on: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9975837/major-league-baseball-move-ahead-instant-replay

 

As I read about them, any and everything is up for review now, except for ball/strike, check swings and foul tips.

 

So why do we need base umpires anymore?

 

Anytime there is a wacker, a sinking line drive catch/no catch someone is going to question it, so why have a middleman? Just have the PU hit a button and some ex-MLB guy in NYC can look at eighteen replays of the call until he can get it right.

 

Also with two challenges per team per game anything that is close will be replayed in a crucial situation, even if to allow the reflief pitcher an extra minute of warm-up tosses to get ready. It just seems awful to me, to all this mess 'get more plays right'.

 

Comments? 

The red/bold spells it out .....  it won't be 'every time' ....they have to use the challenge creatively and objectively ..... there are only 2.........

[th3]

how about things like OBS? will that be challengeable?

[mstaylor]

There are four possible reviews in a game, unless the challenge is successful, but basically four. There are many more calls made in a game, plus part of those calls will be challenged at home. I agree that most IR is BS but the fact remains it is here, we have to deal with it. 

[Mr Umpire]

There are four possible reviews in a game, unless the challenge is successful, but basically four. There are many more calls made in a game, plus part of those calls will be challenged at home. I agree that most IR is BS but the fact remains it is here, we have to deal with it. 

Not yet, we don't.  Only MLB and PBUC.

[DVA7130]

No reason. This past post season was a Great job for the umpires involved. ESPN didn't even have anything to moan about for weeks straight...

[DVA7130]

There are four possible reviews in a game, unless the challenge is successful, but basically four. There are many more calls made in a game, plus part of those calls will be challenged at home. I agree that most IR is BS but the fact remains it is here, we have to deal with it.

Not yet, we don't.  Only MLB and PBUC.

When my local league installs video equipment, I am quiting.. lol

[mstaylor]

 

There are four possible reviews in a game, unless the challenge is successful, but basically four. There are many more calls made in a game, plus part of those calls will be challenged at home. I agree that most IR is BS but the fact remains it is here, we have to deal with it. 

Not yet, we don't.  Only MLB and PBUC.

 

[ricka56]

 

There are four possible reviews in a game, unless the challenge is successful, but basically four. There are many more calls made in a game, plus part of those calls will be challenged at home. I agree that most IR is BS but the fact remains it is here, we have to deal with it. 

Not yet, we don't.  Only MLB and PBUC.

 

I think we will deal with the fall-out of IR in pro-ball. HCs will want more umpire conferences and try to get us to see if our partners can talk us out of a call. And when we refuse their fishing expedition, we'll look like we don't care to get the call right. I see fewer EJs in MLB and more EJs for us...YMMV

[Texas Manny]

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

[Thunderheads]

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

that's funny, last time I checked, the game is still played the same way

 

2 challenges per coach Manny .........  that's it ........

[Texas Manny]

 

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

that's funny, last time I checked, the game is still played the same way

 

2 challenges per coach Manny .........  that's it ........

 

2 challenges too many....

 

No, the game will no longer be played the same way. IR has changed that. The umpires judgment is no longer questionable. Almost all of the rules that require judgment of the umpire have been uprooted and turned upside down. What made the game human, is lost.

 

I don't expect anyone to understand what I'm trying to say. I find and appreciate the purity in baseball's relationship between umpires and managers/players. I find the romance in the questioned or blown call, the ensuing discussion, and argument, or the ejections. Forever gone will be the play at the plate that is discussed for weeks in the purest sense. Now a thriller bang bang at the plate will be called, and what once could be history, is now subjective to artificial review. The discussion will not be about the players, or the umpire making a great call or blown call. It will be how IR changed the play.

 

Leave the game alone. Leave the umpires alone. Leave the game on the field where it belongs; not in an office building somewhere in downtown Manhattan.

 

This is one decision that the Commissioner has made that is outright dead on balls WRONG!

[Thunderheads]

 

 

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

that's funny, last time I checked, the game is still played the same way

 

2 challenges per coach Manny .........  that's it ........

 

2 challenges too many....

 

No, the game will no longer be played the same way. IR has changed that. The umpires judgment is no longer questionable. Almost all of the rules that require judgment of the umpire have been uprooted and turned upside down. What made the game human, is lost.

 

I don't expect anyone to understand what I'm trying to say. I find and appreciate the purity in baseball's relationship between umpires and managers/players. I find the romance in the questioned or blown call, the ensuing discussion, and argument, or the ejections. Forever gone will be the play at the plate that is discussed for weeks in the purest sense. Now a thriller bang bang at the plate will be called, and what once could be history, is now subjective to artificial review. The discussion will not be about the players, or the umpire making a great call or blown call. It will be how IR changed the play.

 

Leave the game alone. Leave the umpires alone. Leave the game on the field where it belongs; not in an office building somewhere in downtown Manhattan.

 

This is one decision that the Commissioner has made that is outright dead on balls WRONG!

 

You're right in many ways Manny, but .... the comment from you I highlighted is wrong/incorrect.  You have a right to your opinion, and that's fine, but .... the game isn't played differently. You hit, pitch, run, field, etc, etc, etc.........that's the game, and it's still the same game

[ricka56]

Texas Manny, on 18 Nov 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

TM = Texas Manny

TM = Terence Mann ... coincidence ?

[JaxRolo]

 

Texas Manny, on 18 Nov 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

TM = Texas Manny

TM = Terence Mann ... coincident ?

 

[scrounge]

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

 

I think that's complete hyperbole...nice try for the poor man's Field of Dreams sentiment, but in my opinion that is misplaced concern. The game has always evolved - this idea that it is unchanging and constant is...frankly, overromanticized garbage. From rules to accepted norms to personnel practices to whatever, it has rolled on with change. Pitchers don't ask the batters where they'd like the ball, home runs can't bounce once and still count as a HR, you can't spit on the ball, there's no reserve clause, the beanball has pretty much disappeared, black players and international players are now allowed in, AL pitchers don't hit, all manner of things are different.

 

The game will survive this. In fact, it will be better for it. Change is not the enemy....and it never has been.

[jkumpire]

Thanks for the comments so far.

 

In MLB at least as of now,and even as the ESPN article shows these rules are wide open for gamesmanship by people, even simply like I said above about using a challenge to delay so a new F1 can get loose. And once it gets to be July or August, and there are three or four calls that people don't like in an important game, the cires will come out for more replay over more things, especially judgement calls (i.e. "that wasn't an INF ump!!!!) 

 

These rules are ripe for abuse, and it won't stop at MLB for long. Since ESPN has lots of cameras at Omaha, eventually some of that will filter down to the D1 WS, and even to D1 Baseball where cameras and networks are coverign more and more games.  

[jkumpire]

"Change is not the enemy....and it never has been."

 

Are you sure about that? Ever heard of Barry Bonds?

[grayhawk]

Here's a question.  If a manager challenges twice and loses both, will it be back to business as usual (come out and argue on calls he doesn't like) for the rest of the game?  

[Texas Manny]

 

 

Texas Manny, on 18 Nov 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

TM = Texas Manny

TM = Terence Mann ... coincident ?

 

 

No coincidence. Yes, I completely share the thoughts from that characterization and it sums up the game perfectly. That's why I used it.

[mw94]

This is in reference to teams stalling to see the replay in the clubhouse 1st than deciding to challenge.

Former manager Tony La Russa, now an MLB special adviser, said managers will have to "rely on their integrity" and not cause delays.    Yeah see how well that works out!!

 

[mstaylor]

 

 

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

that's funny, last time I checked, the game is still played the same way

 

2 challenges per coach Manny .........  that's it ........

 

2 challenges too many....

 

No, the game will no longer be played the same way. IR has changed that. The umpires judgment is no longer questionable. Almost all of the rules that require judgment of the umpire have been uprooted and turned upside down. What made the game human, is lost.

 

I don't expect anyone to understand what I'm trying to say. I find and appreciate the purity in baseball's relationship between umpires and managers/players. I find the romance in the questioned or blown call, the ensuing discussion, and argument, or the ejections. Forever gone will be the play at the plate that is discussed for weeks in the purest sense. Now a thriller bang bang at the plate will be called, and what once could be history, is now subjective to artificial review. The discussion will not be about the players, or the umpire making a great call or blown call. It will be how IR changed the play.

 

Leave the game alone. Leave the umpires alone. Leave the game on the field where it belongs; not in an office building somewhere in downtown Manhattan.

 

This is one decision that the Commissioner has made that is outright dead on balls WRONG!

 

You're right in many ways Manny, but .... the comment from you I highlighted is wrong/incorrect.  You have a right to your opinion, and that's fine, but .... the game isn't played differently. You hit, pitch, run, field, etc, etc, etc.........that's the game, and it's still the same game

Phrase it another way, the flavor of the game will change.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[umpstu]

The face of baseball will cease to exist as we know it. Since the beginning of the game, the umpire's final determination was it. His judgment stood. Now in one fell swoop, the humanistic element of baseball, which made it the most unique game, and the only true sport, has been erased. This game has stood through multiple depressions, two world wars, presidential assassinations, putting a man on the moon, natural calamities, and terrorist attacks. It has embodied the times, and reflected the pulse of the nation. The one constant through the ages since its inception has been baseball. Now, because of a few spoiled fans, uneducated announcers, and the money that they bring, baseball has died. The game will no longer resemble the wholeness and goodness it once held. That realm has been invaded and taken over by technology. This is a sad day.

 

Baseball was a game of two teams, nine players each, under the jurisdiction of one or more umpires, played for 9 innings. Now it is a business of two teams, nine overpaid, spoiled, players, each, under jurisdiciton of one or more subjective umpires, multiple camera's, review officials in a booth far away, no purity of rules, a host of lawyers, for 9 innings.

 

One has to ask, with all the decisions that umpires have to render, and they do so at a rate over 99.5% accuracy, is the .4 percent really worth changing the game forever? As a traditionalist, I don't think so.

It has embodied the times and reflected the pulse of the nation. That means that it has changed along with the nation's pulse. A comment that somebody made has caused me to pause and that is about challenging just to allow for a few more warm up tosses. Never thought of that before. Not a big fan of replay and removing the human element, but we move on.

[umpstu]

"Change is not the enemy....and it never has been."

 

Are you sure about that? Ever heard of Barry Bonds?

If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. If you pick on Bonds you have to pick on a whole lot of HOFers.