Agressive vs Assertive

[Platejob29]

This isn't so much of a specific ejection story as it is a question to what y'alls opinions on this is.

 

As a younger umpire (age wise not experience) I have found that to better control the game and to keep from being pushed around you have to be as assertive as possible. Sometimes aggressive even. Not aggressive to the point that you bait a player or coach into saying the magic words but just in a manner that lets the coach know that you know what you are doing and you won't put up with any of his attempts to throw you off your game. Now that I am the head of umpire training at the baseball complex I work out I am trying to find the best way to explain this to some of my younger new umpires. As much as I want to tell the newer guys to try and be like me (not trying to sound egotistical by any means) as far as controlling a game and managing problem coaches I know that for a new umpire that is difficult to do and comes from experience. The way I learned was by getting my ass chewed out a few times until I got the hang of things. I don't want to do that to the newer guys though because I don't want them to get discouraged from pursuing the craft. I'm trying to focus on teaching them being assertive to keep control of the game and to get a point across versus being aggressive and blowing a situation out of proportion. I would like to avoid having them be overly aggressive and having that lead to ejections that could easily be avoided. This being my first year being in charge of umpire training I am having trouble putting my experiences into terms they can relate to. I have helped younger umpires before but not on umpire philosophy or anything out side of positioning and mechanics. 

 

If y'all could give some feed back on what the best way to explain this to my newer umpires that would be great. I would also love to hear about what has worked in the past for the guys who have taught younger umpires before. Thanks for all your help in advance guys. 

[mstaylor]

I started as a teenager and the best thing I found to do is to be able to explain your calls without being intimidated. This is easier said than done but the important thing is to give them a strong knowledge of mechanics and rules. Unfortunately I never got that knowledge and had to fly by the seat of my pants. There was no internet, I got no training, no rulebook and a league of managers that were little Earl Weavers.

Game management is not something that can be taught, it depends on knowledge, personality, physical carriage of the umpire and how the league backs the umpires. What works for one umpire is completely wrong for another. You can teach what never works, to not be a doormat and to not to walk away from ejections. Also, don't go looking for ejections but they need to understand it is a necessary evil.   

[maven]

Assertive = not allowing others to infringe your rights

 

Aggressive = infringing the rights of others

 

You want to be assertive, but never aggressive.

 

That said, I agree with Mike. But of course, every umpire of any age should know the rules and mechanics, and have good game management skills. So it's not really different for you.

 

What you need to remember is that coaches work umpires: some do it subtly, some less so, but they are advocates for their team. If they perceive your youth as an opening, they will exploit it as they deem appropriate.

 

Too often, I think, younger umpires get bullied by idiot coaches and come to think that game management is about bullying and imposing your will. Being a good game manager requires not only experience, which cannot be rushed, but also good training and learning from mistakes. Confidence and assertiveness require knowledge, skill, and experience, not a loud voice and blustery persona.

[Dannytheman]

Know the rules, know the rules, know the rules.  Practise mechanics.

With people all having different personalities, it is best to get experience at lower level games. The emotion and issues with these games get almost as intense anymore I have found.

 

Teaching my umpires conflict resolution is a 4 hour class all by itself. But you are right, coaches will attempt to abuse a young umpire.

 

I teach, 1)"Tell them what you saw/What was the call, tell them why, tell them you are not going to change it. 2)Listen, listen, listen. 3) Repeat 1 and say "This is over," and walk away.

Anything after that? It's on the manager/coach. They may not know the rules, but they ALL know that one.

[BRUMP]

encourage young umpires to eject......at the levels they are doing there should be very little tolerance for BS anyway....im not saying this to be a dick im saying this because a few ejections (even if they may not be 100% justified) will do wonders for the overall demeanor of the managers/coaches in the league

[MB_Ump]

The other part of this is you learning to manage. As the guy in charge, you need to make yourself train, evaluate, and manage your crew. The training teaches then what you want to do, the evaluations will tell them that they are applying the training correctly or incorrectly, and the managing will reward them for improving (more games/better games) or punish them for sucking (less responsibility/more supervision/ass chewing). Nothing wrong with ass chewing if it is an effective tool for a particular employee, but don't forget when it is time to be positive, too.

[Texas Manny]

encourage young umpires to eject......at the levels they are doing there should be very little tolerance for BS anyway....im not saying this to be a dick im saying this because a few ejections (even if they may not be 100% justified) will do wonders for the overall demeanor of the managers/coaches in the league

I respectfully, but emphatically disagree. Here is why:

 

Young umpires need to learn how to deal with situations. I am not saying they should allow themselves to get run over, but ejecting to earn respect doesn't work. It just earns you a reputation as a "red ass" and managers, players, etc., will cringe when they see you coming. Quick ejections mounting up will either totally undermine an umpires authority on the field, or create a problem for them greater down the road as managers and coaches will try to "one up" on this umpire; or both.

 

Aggressiveness only belongs in an umpire's hustle, and in making a call. I would use the word "emphatic" more than aggressive with making the call. Assertion is the name of the game. It is not just asserting yourself, but knowing when, how, and how much to assert that is key to an umpires success, and that can only be learned with experience.

 

Umpires should not be looking to throw managers, coaches, and/or players out of the game. I humbly submit, that we should do everything to keep them in the game. However, an umpire doesn't eject anyone. The managers, coaches, and/or players eject themselves. Any "You're a blankety, blank, blank" deserves an ejection. Any Rembrandt or Picasso impersonations deserve an early retirement. A thrown helmet, glove, ball, or bat in disgust of a call, should earn the offender an early night. Outside of that scope, jurist-prudence must rule the day. The only way that is learned is by experience. 

 

Communication in baseball is key to earning a good reputation on the field as being a fair and honorable umpire. A manager has the right to question you on a ruling, and if reasonable, we have to listen to it. That being said, not all questioning will be spot on to this. Some umpires won't tolerate it. Others, like myself, will redirect the question to keep it on focus. I'm not saying have the Gettysburg Address with the manager, but to handle appropriately, an umpire must be fair, respectful, and diligent, thus commanding respect from all.

 

Yes, teach them the basics of the "You're....". But make sure they understand the difference. The rest requires diligence on your behalf to evaluate and impartially critique each of your umpires so that they grow accordingly. It takes two to tango. Working together with your umpires past the 4 hour seminar will be met with success as long as the umpire will listen to your instruction, and your instruction is fair, honest, and spot on.

 

Teach to eject = failure.

Teach to prevent, and eject if necessary = success.

 

It's not easy, but the sweetness of the cost of quality lingers long after, in comparison to the bitterness of cheapness, is gone.

[BRUMP]

 

encourage young umpires to eject......at the levels they are doing there should be very little tolerance for BS anyway....im not saying this to be a dick im saying this because a few ejections (even if they may not be 100% justified) will do wonders for the overall demeanor of the managers/coaches in the league

I respectfully, but emphatically disagree. Here is why:

 

Young umpires need to learn how to deal with situations. I am not saying they should allow themselves to get run over, but ejecting to earn respect doesn't work. It just earns you a reputation as a "red ass" and managers, players, etc., will cringe when they see you coming. Quick ejections mounting up will either totally undermine an umpires authority on the field, or create a problem for them greater down the road as managers and coaches will try to "one up" on this umpire; or both.

 

Aggressiveness only belongs in an umpire's hustle, and in making a call. I would use the word "emphatic" more than aggressive with making the call. Assertion is the name of the game. It is not just asserting yourself, but knowing when, how, and how much to assert that is key to an umpires success, and that can only be learned with experience.

 

Umpires should not be looking to throw managers, coaches, and/or players out of the game. I humbly submit, that we should do everything to keep them in the game. However, an umpire doesn't eject anyone. The managers, coaches, and/or players eject themselves. Any "You're a blankety, blank, blank" deserves an ejection. Any Rembrandt or Picasso impersonations deserve an early retirement. A thrown helmet, glove, ball, or bat in disgust of a call, should earn the offender an early night. Outside of that scope, jurist-prudence must rule the day. The only way that is learned is by experience. 

 

Communication in baseball is key to earning a good reputation on the field as being a fair and honorable umpire. A manager has the right to question you on a ruling, and if reasonable, we have to listen to it. That being said, not all questioning will be spot on to this. Some umpires won't tolerate it. Others, like myself, will redirect the question to keep it on focus. I'm not saying have the Gettysburg Address with the manager, but to handle appropriately, an umpire must be fair, respectful, and diligent, thus commanding respect from all.

 

Yes, teach them the basics of the "You're....". But make sure they understand the difference. The rest requires diligence on your behalf to evaluate and impartially critique each of your umpires so that they grow accordingly. It takes two to tango. Working together with your umpires past the 4 hour seminar will be met with success as long as the umpire will listen to your instruction, and your instruction is fair, honest, and spot on.

 

Teach to eject = failure.

Teach to prevent, and eject if necessary = success.

 

It's not easy, but the sweetness of the cost of quality lingers long after, in comparison to the bitterness of cheapness, is gone.

 

manny i respect your opinion.....my reasoning behind my theory is this

1. im not saying throw them out for any little thing their still has to be something more in the EJ report than "he looked at me wrong" 

2. as someone who started umpiring when i was 12 i cringe when i remember some of the things i let managers and coaches get away with in my first few years just because i didnt want to EJ

3. managers and coaches see young umpires as stupid teenagers pulled off the street who dont know any better..... while im not saying that EJ people will lead to respect it will make them realize that they have the same amount of authority as any other umpire regardless of age

4. at the levels that these kids will be working (im assuming mostly small field LL) the managers shouldnt have too much to say anyway the higher levels are a completely different ball game

5. i absoleutly agree on them learning how to deal with situations but again i can say from experience that no matter how much "situation training" you give a young umpire, they will still be reluctant to EJ

[VAUmp]

You said you work at a "complex".  My suggestion is that the "complex" come down hard on coaches that act like 10 year olds.  That way, they know there will be consequences for their actions.  That takes a lot of pressure off your younger (and older) umpires.

[mstaylor]

I never teach to keep a manager in a game. I will teach how to handle situations but some guys just can't help trying to run roughshod over young umpires. I agree if they have questions, even heated questions, we need to handle it. They want to just intimidate or browbeat, away they go. The BOD does have to back them though. If there is an ejection, they need to do a report so you can evaluate them and explain why it was good or what to do to improve.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[Jocko]

@mstaylor - great point... insist on a written EJ report in the form of an email. Then create a folder for each umpire so you can track which coaches are causing problems, and which umpires have quick triggers. You'll see the value in this over time.

As far as "keeping mgrs in the game" I categorically disagree. My job is not to ensure that they don't get run, or to teach them how to handle themselves appropriately. My job is to enforce the rules fairly, so that neither team gains an undue advantage. The mgrs/coaches are the ones that need to keep themselves in the game.

[Jocko]

@Platejob29 - pete peterson sr is a very accomplished instructor/clinician. Maybe send him a pm

[Texas Manny]

As far as "keeping mgrs in the game" I categorically disagree. My job is not to ensure that they don't get run, or to teach them how to handle themselves appropriately. My job is to enforce the rules fairly, so that neither team gains an undue advantage. The mgrs/coaches are the ones that need to keep themselves in the game.

It is evident that you do not understand what I mean by an umpire "keeping managers in the game." But since I perceive that you are on the warpath tonight, I will not explain. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But you do seem quite aggravated.

[Platejob29]

You said you work at a "complex".  My suggestion is that the "complex" come down hard on coaches that act like 10 year olds.  That way, they know there will be consequences for their actions.  That takes a lot of pressure off your younger (and older) umpires.

It's a privately owned USSSA tournament complex so as far as consequences for the coaches we don't have much power other than ejecting them from games or banning them and their team all together which isn't good for business. We run tournaments every weekend so the teams are always changing. There are several teams that come play with us every weekend or every other weekend but there are some that only play with us once or twice a year. 

[Platejob29]

 

As far as "keeping mgrs in the game" I categorically disagree. My job is not to ensure that they don't get run, or to teach them how to handle themselves appropriately. My job is to enforce the rules fairly, so that neither team gains an undue advantage. The mgrs/coaches are the ones that need to keep themselves in the game.

It is evident that you do not understand what I mean by an umpire "keeping managers in the game." But since I perceive that you are on the warpath tonight, I will not explain. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But you do seem quite aggravated.

 

I also have to disagree with the philosophy of trying to keep managers and coaches in the game. I want my umpires to know how to handle them selves on the field and how to get them selves out of trouble when it hits the fan but I also don't want to teach them that they need to try and keep someone in the game. If it's time for the coach to go it's time for the coach to go. There's a fine line for every level of ball and if someone crosses it I want them to take proper action not try and get the person back on the right side of the line.

[Texas Manny]

 

 

As far as "keeping mgrs in the game" I categorically disagree. My job is not to ensure that they don't get run, or to teach them how to handle themselves appropriately. My job is to enforce the rules fairly, so that neither team gains an undue advantage. The mgrs/coaches are the ones that need to keep themselves in the game.

It is evident that you do not understand what I mean by an umpire "keeping managers in the game." But since I perceive that you are on the warpath tonight, I will not explain. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But you do seem quite aggravated.

 

I also have to disagree with the philosophy of trying to keep managers and coaches in the game. I want my umpires to know how to handle them selves on the field and how to get them selves out of trouble when it hits the fan but I also don't want to teach them that they need to try and keep someone in the game. If it's time for the coach to go it's time for the coach to go. There's a fine line for every level of ball and if someone crosses it I want them to take proper action not try and get the person back on the right side of the line.

 

You also, apparently, do not understand by what I mean by trying to keeping the "manager in the game." This is amateur baseball, not professional or collegiate. Teach your umpires to eject, eject, eject, and all you will have is a world of problems, complaints, and worse. There is an art to controlling an argument and the only way that is learned is by experience. I'm not saying I'm right, and you're wrong, or vice-avers. Use what you can from what I said, and discard the rest. You asked for an opinion and I gave you mine with pure intentions. To question if you don't understand is one thing, but if you are going to just argue with the advice offered then why ask in the first place?

[mstaylor]

I believe that you mean you advocate managing situations so they didn't escalate to an ejection. That is a fine goal and can be accomplished at older levels with veterans. At younger levels the coaches aren't experienced enough to be handled, and the young umpires aren't experienced to do the handling. The result is either the coaches running over young officials or them dumping coaches.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[ricka56]

Most new umpires are unsure of where the EJ line is. Perhaps coming up with a list of sentences that a coach might say (some over the line, some not). With this list you could ask your recruits if the following line is an EJ or not and go through the whole list. In this way the newbies understand where the line is for them and they have an idea of what to listen for. If they hear a coach say something similar on the field, they won't have to wonder where the line is or if the coach has crossed it.  

 

Perhaps adding the EJ mechanic to this exercise would also be of benefit and fun too.

[umpcoachfather]

1.  Know the rules and proper mechanics

2.  Dont stop training and attending clinics - even if you think you know everything

3.  Get a mentor - someone who will evaluate you during games. 

4.  Dont stop training and attending clinics - even if you think you know everything

5.  Know the rules and proper mechanics

[Jocko]

Good words for baseball and life......

Say what you mean

Mean what you say

Say it in a respectful way

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Good words for baseball and life......

Say what you mean

Mean what you say

Say it in a respectful way

Respectful, but firm.

[MidAmUmp]

There are some good pieces of advice that have been given so far.

 

I would first suggest making sure you are assigning stronger umpires with weaker umpires.  That way you have at least one strong umpire who could step in if they see a brown SH*# cloud on the horizon.

 

Handling situations comes with time and experience.  You can talk until your blue in the face about how to handle things, but there are 2 problems - 1) no two situations are alike and 2) regardless of your pesonality you don't know how you'll handle something until you've been through it.  Experience is the best teacher.  For instance: Never again will I rip my mask off and yell at a HS pitcher to knock that SH*# off when he reacts to a pitch...not good  . But I was young and stupid.

 

As much as I hate meetings, I would suggest having several to discuss what they are experiencing on the field.  Talk things through after the fact and assess how they could handle it differently next time.  Maybe even simulate arguments with them so they can get a little more comfortable with it.

 

Knowing the rules, mechanics and proper positioning are all good pieces of advice.  So I think the only other advice I would offer is to tell them: mouth shut, ears open, keep your responses short and sweet, and assure them the argument will end soon.  The less they say, the less there is to argue about.  Don't let the coaches get personal.  Teach them how and when to warn, and how and when to eject.

[blue23ll]

I have a couple of thoughts on this. Having been a UIC in a little league for a while, and having mentored and trained 14 year old umpires, I think training to eject has merit. The biggest challenge is getting a teenager to stand up to an adult on the baseball field. As a result, they allow the adults to push them around and it actually became abusive in some cases. So, training to eject means that rather than engage in debate with an adult, I wanted these young, inexperienced umpires to become assertive, not aggressive, and to not take any guff from anyone. The fact that I told them it was OK to eject, that they would not be in trouble if they did, gave them the support they needed to feel confident.  In actuality, I believe we only had one 14 year old eject a manager, but we have no incidents of abuse or adults bullying the kids either.

 

And, it's not an umpires job to keep participants in the game, its the participants responsibility to do that. We don't go looking for reasons to eject, at least I don't, but I won't hesitate to EJ if it's warranted.

[NCAAump2]

I agree with blue, I don't go looking to eject anyone, but if the situation warrants it, i won't hesitate.  With younger umpires, you have to teach them what to and what not to put up with, as well as when to or not to eject.  If they think that they'll be "in trouble" if they eject someone, they're more likely to deal with more abuse due to fear of being reprimanded.  If they've gotta go, they've gotta go.  

 

IMHO, it's not my job to keep anyone in the game.  If a coach or manager want to come out to "argue a call," and then proceed to make themselves act like a jackass, why should I WANT to keep him in the game?  If he is so inclined, punch his ticket and end his day.

 

Manny, since some of us "apparently don't know what you mean," please elaborate and tell us what you mean when you said it should be our job to keep someone in the game.

[Specks]

I've used the phrase "try and keep them in the game" before. In another thread people are talking about the MLB documentary "The Third Team" and when the umpires are meeting with the managers in the umpire lounge before the game, they say about the players, "we're going to try and keep them in the game". I don't know what Manny means but to me it comes back to what one of my mentors (D1 guy) says. Part of our responsibility is to try and de-escalate a crisis. If I can get a coach to calm down and talk to me I will, he says he piece and stays in the game and if an evaluator is watching I think I look better. That being said if he can't be handled and has to go I will push the BOOM button. My son is 14 and just went thru his first clinic and he's getting ready to start working games, we've role-played different situations so hopefully he's better prepared. All things being equal for his age I would rather he EJ slightly early than slightly late.