3 Man Question

[Jimurray]

3 Man mechanics, nobody on. Tailing line drive down RF line which turns U1 around for the fair foul. Ball is fair and is in triple territory. PU comes up behind U1 for 1B coverage. But what then? Does U1 have to stay out? Thus PU goes back home and U3 takes all the bases. Or, can U1 come back in and take home while PU goes to 3B?

[D62 blue]

You are now in 2 man mechanics with U1 out . U1 should stay out , U3 has the BR all the way to 3rd . U3 goes out same 2 man mechanics , U1 pivots , has BR all the way to 3rd . Depending on what you're assoc or league or mechanics are taught in you're area , you might pre game a variation of this . But in general on 3 man mechanics on every fly ball (not just trouble) , someone should go out  , that is part of the 3 man . Once someone is out , you have a 2 man mechanics .

 

Marc

[grayhawk]

CCA says once BR reaches second base, PU returns home for plays there.  BU has all plays at second and third.

[RichMSN]

You are now in 2 man mechanics with U1 out . U1 should stay out , U3 has the BR all the way to 3rd . U3 goes out same 2 man mechanics , U1 pivots , has BR all the way to 3rd . Depending on what you're assoc or league or mechanics are taught in you're area , you might pre game a variation of this . But in general on 3 man mechanics on every fly ball (not just trouble) , someone should go out  , that is part of the 3 man . Once someone is out , you have a 2 man mechanics .

 

Marc

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

[sdix00]

 

You are now in 2 man mechanics with U1 out . U1 should stay out , U3 has the BR all the way to 3rd . U3 goes out same 2 man mechanics , U1 pivots , has BR all the way to 3rd . Depending on what you're assoc or league or mechanics are taught in you're area , you might pre game a variation of this . But in general on 3 man mechanics on every fly ball (not just trouble) , someone should go out  , that is part of the 3 man . Once someone is out , you have a 2 man mechanics .

 

Marc

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

 

 

 

Right.   We used to send the 3rd umpire out on everything in the air, but that was really so we could revert to two man and do what we know. 

 

This year, we actually spent time working on how to do it right and we got rid of that crutch.   We go out on trouble only, now. 

[Jimurray]

You are now in 2 man mechanics with U1 out . U1 should stay out , U3 has the BR all the way to 3rd . U3 goes out same 2 man mechanics , U1 pivots , has BR all the way to 3rd . Depending on what you're assoc or league or mechanics are taught in you're area , you might pre game a variation of this . But in general on 3 man mechanics on every fly ball (not just trouble) , someone should go out  , that is part of the 3 man . Once someone is out , you have a 2 man mechanics .

 

Marc

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

 

 

Right.   We used to send the 3rd umpire out on everything in the air, but that was really so we could revert to two man and do what we know. 

 

This year, we actually spent time working on how to do it right and we got rid of that crutch.   We go out on trouble only, now.

What I don't understand is that your back is turned because you still have catch no catch responsibility for the can of corn. So PU is filling in behind you for that moment. So with a line drive that the line umpire can turn and call fair or foul, does he have to stay out.

[coachump4]

Good rule to remember in 3 man is once a BU  goes out they always stay out.   As others have said you then you have regular 2 man rotation.  Same in 4 man if one goes out they stay out and then it reverts to 3 man rotation.

[noumpere]

Good rule to remember in 3 man is once a BU  goes out they always stay out.   As others have said you then you have regular 2 man rotation.  Same in 4 man if one goes out they stay out and then it reverts to 3 man rotation.

The first part has one exception and that's with no one on and U1 goes out then PU has all the plays at first base.  In 2 man BU would have that.

 

I think that second part has a few (eg more than 1) exceptions but I'd have to dig through the CCA books to find some examples.

[coachump4]

 

Good rule to remember in 3 man is once a BU  goes out they always stay out.   As others have said you then you have regular 2 man rotation.  Same in 4 man if one goes out they stay out and then it reverts to 3 man rotation.

The first part has one exception and that's with no one on and U1 goes out then PU has all the plays at first base.  In 2 man BU would have that.

 

I think that second part has a few (eg more than 1) exceptions but I'd have to dig through the CCA books to find some examples.

 

Well I don't do CCA but was going by the FED and what I have been taught.

[zm1283]

Good rule to remember in 3 man is once a BU  goes out they always stay out.   As others have said you then you have regular 2 man rotation.  Same in 4 man if one goes out they stay out and then it reverts to 3 man rotation.

 

Except when you have R1/R3 (No rotation) and someone goes out.  There still isn't a rotation, so it's not exactly like 2-man.

[Jimurray]

Good rule to remember in 3 man is once a BU  goes out they always stay out.   As others have said you then you have regular 2 man rotation.  Same in 4 man if one goes out they stay out and then it reverts to 3 man rotation.

 

The question is, if U1 turns around for a can of corn or my line drive scenario, is he considered to have gone out? CCA says that if you don't go out on C/NC you are still responsible for the C/NC call. So your back is turned but you haven't "gone out". I like U_24's take on the matter for advanced crews.

[spiritump]

 

Good rule to remember in 3 man is once a BU  goes out they always stay out.   As others have said you then you have regular 2 man rotation.  Same in 4 man if one goes out they stay out and then it reverts to 3 man rotation.

 

The question is, if U1 turns around for a can of corn or my line drive scenario, is he considered to have gone out? CCA says that if you don't go out on C/NC you are still responsible for the C/NC call. So your back is turned but you haven't "gone out". I like U_24's take on the matter for advanced crews.

 

 

When U1 turns to see the ball and is not going out on it --it is still his catch.  So when U1 is not going out he will put up his left hand and give the plate guy a stop signal--this tells the plate ump that U1 has the catch but plate ump has the touch at 1st-- While U1 has his hand up U1 drifts towards the 1st base coach box.

[D62 blue]

This guide may help , even if it doesn't agree with how you were taught  or you assoc or league , unit ect....

It can be used (adapted) for LL all the way up to any 90' field working inside or outside .

 

Marc

3manMajorsMechanics.pdf

[noumpere]

 

 

 

 

When U1 turns to see the ball and is not going out on it --it is still his catch.  So when U1 is not going out he will put up his left hand and give the plate guy a stop signal--this tells the plate ump that U1 has the catch but plate ump has the touch at 1st-- While U1 has his hand up U1 drifts towards the 1st base coach box.

 

 

 

You need to be careful about this drifting part because if it then turns into a trouble ball you are farther away.  Instead just stay where you are so if the fielder loses it in the lights or an over aggressive F4 keeps charging out or whatever you can put your hand down and go.  imo of course. lol.

[NWA_UMP]

We put a slight different twist on things. Since we work so much 2 man if U3 goes out he stays out. If U1 goes out and PU rotates to 3rd base, U1 has the dish on plays there. I had two of those rotations in playoffs this year. Runner at 1st with sinking line drives to right. Catch/no catch and fair/foul were both in question. I had to rule on the hit and bust my a$$ to home plate for plays there.  

 

YMMV...that's how we do it. We use CCA for rotations but that is mod to the mechanics that we have made. As long as it is covered in pregame it is not an issue...unless you are slow!

[zm1283]

We put a slight different twist on things. Since we work so much 2 man if U3 goes out he stays out. If U1 goes out and PU rotates to 3rd base, U1 has the dish on plays there. I had two of those rotations in playoffs this year. Runner at 1st with sinking line drives to right. Catch/no catch and fair/foul were both in question. I had to rule on the hit and bust my a$$ to home plate for plays there.  

 

YMMV...that's how we do it. We use CCA for rotations but that is mod to the mechanics that we have made. As long as it is covered in pregame it is not an issue...unless you are slow!

 

So if you have R1 and the batter hits a ball that takes F9 back and toward the foul pole (Or toward the fence in right-center field), he has to go out and rule on the catch/no-catch (And maybe fair/foul), then beat R1 to home plate?  If you have two outs and R1 is running on contact, you have a real mess because he's committing to third base no matter what if F9 is taken back to the fence.  You're leaving the PU standing at third base and R1 scoring with no one there to make a call.  Sorry, but this is not a good mechanic.  

 

If U1 goes out, stay out and the other two umpires can revert to 2-man.  It's not that difficult.

[guitarplaya2007]

 

We put a slight different twist on things. Since we work so much 2 man if U3 goes out he stays out. If U1 goes out and PU rotates to 3rd base, U1 has the dish on plays there. I had two of those rotations in playoffs this year. Runner at 1st with sinking line drives to right. Catch/no catch and fair/foul were both in question. I had to rule on the hit and bust my a$$ to home plate for plays there.  

 

YMMV...that's how we do it. We use CCA for rotations but that is mod to the mechanics that we have made. As long as it is covered in pregame it is not an issue...unless you are slow!

 

So if you have R1 and the batter hits a ball that takes F9 back and toward the foul pole (Or toward the fence in right-center field), he has to go out and rule on the catch/no-catch (And maybe fair/foul), then beat R1 to home plate?  If you have two outs and R1 is running on contact, you have a real mess because he's committing to third base no matter what if F9 is taken back to the fence.  You're leaving the PU standing at third base and R1 scoring with no one there to make a call.  Sorry, but this is not a good mechanic.  

 

If U1 goes out, stay out and the other two umpires can revert to 2-man.  It's not that difficult.

 

I believe this is the pro mechanic, i'll have to bust out the red book to see how that situation is handled in 3 man

[Jimurray]

We put a slight different twist on things. Since we work so much 2 man if U3 goes out he stays out. If U1 goes out and PU rotates to 3rd base, U1 has the dish on plays there. I had two of those rotations in playoffs this year. Runner at 1st with sinking line drives to right. Catch/no catch and fair/foul were both in question. I had to rule on the hit and bust my a$$ to home plate for plays there.  

 

YMMV...that's how we do it. We use CCA for rotations but that is mod to the mechanics that we have made. As long as it is covered in pregame it is not an issue...unless you are slow!

 

So if you have R1 and the batter hits a ball that takes F9 back and toward the foul pole (Or toward the fence in right-center field), he has to go out and rule on the catch/no-catch (And maybe fair/foul), then beat R1 to home plate?  If you have two outs and R1 is running on contact, you have a real mess because he's committing to third base no matter what if F9 is taken back to the fence.  You're leaving the PU standing at third base and R1 scoring with no one there to make a call.  Sorry, but this is not a good mechanic.  

 

If U1 goes out, stay out and the other two umpires can revert to 2-man.  It's not that difficult.

I believe this is the pro mechanic, i'll have to bust out the red book to see how that situation is handled in 3 man

The sit has morphed from no one on to R1. Please be clear about what the red book says. But a few posters here have given me some insight. Other than that 3 and 4 man can be a goat rope without a proper briefing.

[guitarplaya2007]

I don't have the book for 3 man, thought I did but I don't, i'm pretty sure that with R-1 and U1 going out though that the plate guy is going to rotate to third and U-1, if he has time, is going to rotate to the plate for a potential play. i'll make a couple calls and check to make sure on this but I'm more than 75% sure that is the rotation in professional baseball, college and the like may be different...

[noumpere]

My very old NAPBL manual does NOT have U1 return home in that situation (meaning R1 only and U1 goes out).  It has PU going to third and then returning to home for a ply there.  Its in section 8.2.4

[guitarplaya2007]

Called my buddy in AA, he said with R-1 and U1 going out if U1 has time to get down to the plate then do it, just as if in 2 man you had gone out with no runners on. If you don't have time then no big deal, the plate guy will cover the play at the plate, chances are he's already recognized that there will be no play into third and already started to go back home, this of course is if U1 went out and had to stay out for an extended period I.E. trouble or baseball nearing a boundary...

[Jimurray]

Called my buddy in AA, he said with R-1 and U1 going out if U1 has time to get down to the plate then do it, just as if in 2 man you had gone out with no runners on. If you don't have time then no big deal, the plate guy will cover the play at the plate, chances are he's already recognized that there will be no play into third and already started to go back home, this of course is if U1 went out and had to stay out for an extended period I.E. trouble or baseball nearing a boundary...

So depending on the crews training and ability " if you go out you stay out" is not written in stone?

[catsbackr]

One thing to remember too, if down the line and fair, and you have anything in the corner, bullpen, benches, ill fitting wall padding, anything, the umpire needs to stay with the ball.

[Radwaste50]

 

You are now in 2 man mechanics with U1 out . U1 should stay out , U3 has the BR all the way to 3rd . U3 goes out same 2 man mechanics , U1 pivots , has BR all the way to 3rd . Depending on what you're assoc or league or mechanics are taught in you're area , you might pre game a variation of this . But in general on 3 man mechanics on every fly ball (not just trouble) , someone should go out  , that is part of the 3 man . Once someone is out , you have a 2 man mechanics .

 

Marc

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

 

This is a trouble ball as it threatens a boundary

[NWA_UMP]

 

We put a slight different twist on things. Since we work so much 2 man if U3 goes out he stays out. If U1 goes out and PU rotates to 3rd base, U1 has the dish on plays there. I had two of those rotations in playoffs this year. Runner at 1st with sinking line drives to right. Catch/no catch and fair/foul were both in question. I had to rule on the hit and bust my a$$ to home plate for plays there.  

 

YMMV...that's how we do it. We use CCA for rotations but that is mod to the mechanics that we have made. As long as it is covered in pregame it is not an issue...unless you are slow!

 

So if you have R1 and the batter hits a ball that takes F9 back and toward the foul pole (Or toward the fence in right-center field), he has to go out and rule on the catch/no-catch (And maybe fair/foul), then beat R1 to home plate?  If you have two outs and R1 is running on contact, you have a real mess because he's committing to third base no matter what if F9 is taken back to the fence.  You're leaving the PU standing at third base and R1 scoring with no one there to make a call.  Sorry, but this is not a good mechanic.  

 

If U1 goes out, stay out and the other two umpires can revert to 2-man.  It's not that difficult.

 

That is exactly what I am saying. The logic is we are more accustomed to working two man than 3 man. We work two man with a Guy in A and a PU. If U3 goes out he stays out, period. The rotation is more common with a sure hit to the outfield than a trouble ball to right field. I have worked this modification probably 50 times with one game where I felt I was at a disadvantage getting the call right at Home Plate. But we don't go out on all fly balls either...only trouble balls. I am just following what our association has set as our mechanics for 3 man.

 

Do as Roman's do when in Rome....