3 Man Question

[RichMSN]

 

 

You are now in 2 man mechanics with U1 out . U1 should stay out , U3 has the BR all the way to 3rd . U3 goes out same 2 man mechanics , U1 pivots , has BR all the way to 3rd . Depending on what you're assoc or league or mechanics are taught in you're area , you might pre game a variation of this . But in general on 3 man mechanics on every fly ball (not just trouble) , someone should go out  , that is part of the 3 man . Once someone is out , you have a 2 man mechanics .

 

Marc

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

 

This is a trouble ball as it threatens a boundary

 

 

If you're going to quote me, please read the message I'm quoting.  It was in response to a poster that said that someone goes out on every fly ball in 3-man, not in response to the original situation.

 

Of course if there's F/F, U1's going out.  I don't think that was ever in question.

[zm1283]

 

 

We put a slight different twist on things. Since we work so much 2 man if U3 goes out he stays out. If U1 goes out and PU rotates to 3rd base, U1 has the dish on plays there. I had two of those rotations in playoffs this year. Runner at 1st with sinking line drives to right. Catch/no catch and fair/foul were both in question. I had to rule on the hit and bust my a$$ to home plate for plays there.  

 

YMMV...that's how we do it. We use CCA for rotations but that is mod to the mechanics that we have made. As long as it is covered in pregame it is not an issue...unless you are slow!

 

So if you have R1 and the batter hits a ball that takes F9 back and toward the foul pole (Or toward the fence in right-center field), he has to go out and rule on the catch/no-catch (And maybe fair/foul), then beat R1 to home plate?  If you have two outs and R1 is running on contact, you have a real mess because he's committing to third base no matter what if F9 is taken back to the fence.  You're leaving the PU standing at third base and R1 scoring with no one there to make a call.  Sorry, but this is not a good mechanic.  

 

If U1 goes out, stay out and the other two umpires can revert to 2-man.  It's not that difficult.

 

That is exactly what I am saying. The logic is we are more accustomed to working two man than 3 man. We work two man with a Guy in A and a PU. If U3 goes out he stays out, period. The rotation is more common with a sure hit to the outfield than a trouble ball to right field. I have worked this modification probably 50 times with one game where I felt I was at a disadvantage getting the call right at Home Plate. But we don't go out on all fly balls either...only trouble balls. I am just following what our association has set as our mechanics for 3 man.

 

Do as Roman's do when in Rome....

 

 

It sounds more like you're advocating this mechanic, which I'm not.  I'm saying that learning 3-man the right way is difficult enough for most people, so why make up your own mechanics?

 

With a sure hit to the outfield and R1, there is a rotation and U1 is going to the plate if R1 commits to third base.  I hope it's a common rotation.  My point was that even when you're going out on trouble balls (Like F9 going toward the wall), you will have trouble getting back to home plate for the rotation and to make a call should there be a play on R1 there.

 

I will also point out that professional mechanics don't call for base umpires to only go out on trouble balls.  They go out if there are no runners on or only one runner on and the ball is hit in their area when they're on the line.  

[NWA_UMP]

zm..

 

Yes it can be difficult to get to the plate on certain rotations...We don't go out on every fly either...

 

 

I don't make the mechanics, I have to use them. I don't agree with the mechanics and I can't change them. These are the mods that our executive committee has set and I have to use them. Keyword....HUSTLE!

[alex7]

It's figured that 2 umpires are enough for 1 runner, which is why sometimes in 3-man with no runners on, guys will go out regardless.  

Why have the plate guy make the call (especially if there's a bobble or something odd happens) from 250 feet away when you could have gone out and still had the runner bracketed by 2 umpires?

[RichMSN]

It's figured that 2 umpires are enough for 1 runner, which is why sometimes in 3-man with no runners on, guys will go out regardless.  

Why have the plate guy make the call (especially if there's a bobble or something odd happens) from 250 feet away when you could have gone out and still had the runner bracketed by 2 umpires?

 

Well, in CCA mechanics, the wing umpire doesn't give up catch/no catch responsibility even if they *don't* go out.  They put up a hand stopping the appropriate umpire from covering and *still* have the catch / no catch decision.

[zm1283]

zm..

 

Yes it can be difficult to get to the plate on certain rotations...We don't go out on every fly either...

 

 

I don't make the mechanics, I have to use them. I don't agree with the mechanics and I can't change them. These are the mods that our executive committee has set and I have to use them. Keyword....HUSTLE!

 

I realize that you don't make the mechanics.  I'm simply pointing out that whoever does make them needs to re-evaluate them.  It doesn't make any sense to make things harder on yourself for no good reason.

[johnnyg08]

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

Me too. I've been debating it w/ my peers around here as we head deep into FED playoffs here.

It just doesn't make sense to send an umpire out on a routine fly ball.

Here's when I'd like to see umpires go out in three man: (From CCA)

1. outfielder turns and runs back

2. converging players on a fly ball

3. catch might be made below the waist

4. etc...

[noumpere]

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

Me too. I've been debating it w/ my peers around here as we head deep into FED playoffs here.

It just doesn't make sense to send an umpire out on a routine fly ball.

Here's when I'd like to see umpires go out in three man: (From CCA)

1. outfielder turns and runs back

2. converging players on a fly ball

3. catch might be made below the waist

4. etc...

 

4 is fair /foul is an issue

 

theres a list or something right in CCA of when to go.

[RichMSN]

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

Me too. I've been debating it w/ my peers around here as we head deep into FED playoffs here.

It just doesn't make sense to send an umpire out on a routine fly ball.

Here's when I'd like to see umpires go out in three man: (From CCA)

1. outfielder turns and runs back

2. converging players on a fly ball

3. catch might be made below the waist

4. etc...

 

 

Fortunately I worked with crews well versed in CCA mechanics (and 3-man in general).  

 

Of course we had so much wind the one night we went on everything to the outfield -- nothing was truly routine.

 

The only CCA change the one umpire wasn't fond of was keeping the PU home with R1+R3 -- didn't matter much to me how we did that, but in the end, I ended up staying home and we didn't miss a rotation (if we even had one).

[johnnyg08]

 

 

CCA mechanics only have umpires out on trouble balls.  I like the logic -- why reduce the number of umpires covering bases on a routine fly ball?

Me too. I've been debating it w/ my peers around here as we head deep into FED playoffs here.

It just doesn't make sense to send an umpire out on a routine fly ball.

Here's when I'd like to see umpires go out in three man: (From CCA)

1. outfielder turns and runs back

2. converging players on a fly ball

3. catch might be made below the waist

4. etc...

 

4 is fair /foul is an issue

 

theres a list or something right in CCA of when to go.

 

 

 

Yep, this was in response to routine fly balls.  Fair/Foul responsibility would not be "routine" for the umpire crew.