Grid Method

[JonnyCat]

I thought it was strange as well, but that is what is being taught, at least here in So Cal. I'm not so sure the kids understand the concept of solving the equations, but rather just going through the motions.

Semper, both my kids did Catholic school K-8. One is still in, but my oldest made the switch to public high school last year. Mornings always started with the pledge and a prayer. It was a great way to start the school day!

[yawetag]

We started Home Schooling our 2nd and 4th Grader this year.

I have a very strong dislike for our school system here in California and believe they are failing our children.

I feel the same with the schools in my area. So much so that I made no fight when my wife and mother-in-law wanted to home school. However, my MIL has gone through two bouts of lung cancer and can no longer help, putting all the schooling of a 5-year-old and 3-year-old on my wife.

My grandparents have made an offer to pay for my children to go to private school. We've been on several tours and have found a few we like the most. In all three, we found teachers that were excited to teach and children that appeared happy to be in classes -- something I didn't see at the public schools in the area, even at the lower grades.

[BRUMP]

I recently went with my son to his 10th grade Algebra-2 class. It was bring a parent to school day and I had time to attend a couple of classes with him. In his math class we played algebra Jeopardy. They were doing the grid or box method for many of the equations and I was completely lost. Now it's been a few years since I stepped into a math class, but I was always good at math in High School and College, I even managed to pass 1st semester Calculus in college. Of course it took me 3 tries, and needless to say after that, I changed my major. I was looking forward to visiting his math class in hopes that I could dazzle my son with all of that silly knowledge I have. My son said I should stick to writing essays.

We did algebra equations much differently back in the day. I don't know if the grid method is better or not, but my head was spinning. I wasn't able to answer one question correctly in Jeopardy. Luckily we were in teams and our side managed to win, but not with my help.

I find it very disturbing that kids in Algebra II is using the grid method to find answers. To me, at that level you should be able to do it conventionally or be using a calculator.

I can't speak for others but it my 4 yrs of high school I took Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre Calc, and Calc. We always use a calculator. Everyone should know how to do the simple math stuff by now and teachers aren't going to waste time by waiting for someone to figure it out by hand. I can't remember the last time I took a math test w/o a calculator. 7th grade maybe???

[johnnyg08]

We always use a calculator.

Except for when I hear people complain about your server not being able to make change out of $20 w/o a calculator.

I guess in my mind, if a person can't do that, the math system has failed the child. If a calculator was the solution to the math achievement gap, then we wouldn't teach any math at all and just give the kids calculators. Yes, they'd likely get the answers right, absent the higher order thinking required to do higher level math. Our future needs innovators to solve the world's complex problems. Calculators do not create great thinkers and innovators.

[JHSump]

I usually click on "View New Content" when coming to UE.

I saw the "Grid Method" in the list, and finally bit. Was it a new baseball mechanic I had not heard of? Was it something to do with football? Silly me!

Anyway, here is my input:

1) I played the french horn in middle and high school. Wanted to play the trumpet but the band leader said he had enough trumpet players.

2) My high school delinquency story. I was a nerd/athlete. In high school physics I never did the homework, partly because it was almost never collected. But on the days the teacher collected the homework, those of us that did not do it were sent to another room to complete the homework. We would just talk, but now and then we would look at the homework, the other guys would ask me what the answer was (it was known I was good in physics), I would give it to them, and then we'd get back to talking. Sorry, not a dramatic story. But, like I said, I was a nerd.

3) The grid method, multiplication tables, and calculators. A question that comes up all the time in school is, "Will I ever use this?" I use math everyday, and not just arithmetic. Part of my job is to teach thinking about new (scientific) ideas. The other part of my job is to make new ideas. In class, with students, or in conversations with other professors (in physics or engineering), we often do quick and dirty arithmetic in our heads. We do not compute these numbers out to the last decimal place. Often we just need a result accurate to the first one or two places which is enough to tell if an idea has any merit worthy of further, more accurate, investigation. Really, just calculating the "order of magnitude" is often enough (is it 10s, 100s, 1000s, etc.?). If we need an accurate result, later, we use a calculator, or a computer.

Is the grid method good, bad, a waste of time, or what? Anyone that works with numbers needs to know the multiplication table, even at our level. But anyone that will work with mathematical concepts in a deeper way (a college level student/innovator in math and science, for example), needs to understand the structure of math behind the raw numbers, behind the multiplication table. Anything that gets students, even K-12 students, thinking of math as more than memorization is useful in that sense. Maybe the grid method is an attempt at that sort of thing. I don't know if it is a good attempt, or not. That's harder to judge. Innovations in teaching may or may not be useful.

As we know from many examples in science, an idea may seem really good, but until you test it against nature (does it work?), nobody really knows. I don't know if there is any research behind the grid method. For example, a long term study that shows that students using the grid method (compared to a control group) will do better in algebra, or trig, or calculus. Might be, might not. Might not have even been tested at all.

4) I'll bet there are those of you that are much better than me at multiplication in your head of numbers with many places. Sounds like mstaylor is! I don't know all those rules for quick calculations! Sounds like it would be fun to know those rules. But, I would probably quickly forget them, since it would be rare that I get to use them. I guess, in the end, you learn what you need to learn for the job at hand.

5) Someone mentioned having your child *teach you* the grid method, or whatever. That is a great way to get them to learn something well. You don't really learn something until you try to explain it to someone else.

[BRUMP]

We always use a calculator.

Except for when I hear people complain about your server not being able to make change out of $20 w/o a calculator.

I guess in my mind, if a person can't do that, the math system has failed the child. If a calculator was the solution to the math achievement gap, then we wouldn't teach any math at all and just give the kids calculators. Yes, they'd likely get the answers right, absent the higher order thinking required to do higher level math. Our future needs innovators to solve the world's complex problems. Calculators do not create great thinkers and innovators.

Don't get me wrong you should still e able to do basic mental math.

[mstaylor]

I had the same teacher for Geometry and Algebra II, almost had her for Algebra I, and her philosophy was that higher math was to make complex math easier. She constantly equated what we were doing to science or other real life situations. She would teach us the concept with all the steps, so we would understand why we were doing what we were doing, then she allowed us to take any shortcuts we could. People no being able to make change without a change button are just examples of pushing kids through without actually teaching them what they are doing. My youngest son is not a scholar, learning and reading disabilities, but he can multiple without a calculator and can make change without a change key. Calculators are fine in math after a certain level but you have to know how to do it without it.

I built houses for years and when I framed roofs I used a secant formula to figure the lengths. I eventually bought a calculator made for construction that saved me from having to enter the formula manually and convert the inches and fractions. It was set up to do it all automatically, that didn't make me lazy, it made me more efficient. The thing is I learned what formula to use and why. Most framers used a rafter chart that you looked up the info. They had no clue how the information was found or why. Also they were limited to whole inches, my method I could find the actual length.

[carolinablue]

Here's a good one since some were talking about the decline of the public school system. I mentioned before that my older son who graduated HS in 2010 was a straight A student starting in elementary school and all the way through HS except his final year in math. He graduated with enough scholarships to go to a state college for free. His list of achievements and awards in HS was astonoshing.Here's what happened, I am getting mad again as I begin thinking about this. I haven't got over it yet.

In NC, a student must have four credits in math to graduate. Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Geometry and another basic math course ( I can't think of what it is now ).

When he was in the 8th grade ( middle school ) they started a new program for top students where they would let them take Algebra 1 in middle school. They promoted it as a great oppurtunity for a select group of students and that being my first kid in school I bought it hook, line and sinker not realizing what was to come.

Anyway, since he took Algerbra 1 in 8th grade, he took Algebra 2 in the 9th, and Geometry in the 10th and the other math course that I can't think of in the 11th. He got an A in all of them. When it was time to take a math course in the 12th ( NC also requires a student to take math each year in HS ) he had to go to another school ( called career center ) that teaches AP course and take AP calculus, since that was the only course he could take because he had already took all the others.

We were like fine, you already have all your math credits so go for it. Well, he just could not grasp calculus and got a F in the first semester. We recieved a letter one day stating that our son, who was in the top 5 in his class ,was failing math and was in danger of not graduating. WTF. Well it turns out that that Algebra 1 course he took in MS. did not count towards his HS credits. What followed after that was an epic battle with the NC. school board that I took all the way to the top. I could include the details which would have eveyone here just scratching thier heads at the stupidity of it but it's a long, long story. Basically, they all said I was right and they were wrong but could do nothing about it. The size of the school board is unbelievable and the stupidity of it is even worse. I asked them what message they were sending about hard work to all the students. They had no answer and didn't care. I could go on forever. At least it worked out for my son but I wonder how many others were screwed in that manner.

[mstaylor]

My senior year I wanted to take a business course in addition to my academic math. I wanted the practical aspects it taught, checkbook, resumes and other useful skills. They wouldn't allow me because the math was all addition/subtraction, therefore too easy. I said I wanted the applied skills not the math skills. I took bookkeeping instead, still only addition/subtraction.

[yawetag]

carolinablue, I went to school in NC, too, and followed the same math plan your son did, only our Calc class was through the local community college. I ended up making a C in Calc I and had to drop out of Calc II the second semester.

BTW, the class you can't think of is Trigonometry.

[carolinablue]

carolinablue, I went to school in NC, too, and followed the same math plan your son did, only our Calc class was through the local community college. I ended up making a C in Calc I and had to drop out of Calc II the second semester.

BTW, the class you can't think of is Trigonometry.

That's it. Thanks.

Funny thing was that the principle of the school my son was taking the Calculus class at said he wanted to be a math teacher but could not pass calculus. After three tries he changed majors.

[yawetag]

Funny thing was that the principle of the school my son was taking the Calculus class at said he wanted to be a math teacher but could not pass calculus. After three tries he changed majors.

Calculus is the bane of a lot of students' desires. I've known several Computer Science majors that changed because of Calculus. Thankfully, that C in 1998 has helped me with my recent return to school -- no math classes now!

[mjr_2013]

High school senior here...

1) I play the saxophone and have since 5th grade. I'm in the top band at my school and really enjoy it.

2) As far as math classes go, my story is a bit different... From 1st grade - 10th grade, I got all A's and one B+... Michigan requires Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and a senior math class... I took Algebra I (for credit) my 8th grade year, and got a 99.99% in the class... In 10th grade, I took Honors Algebra II. The teacher was (I don't know how to say this any different) a bitch to me. She had her four or five favorites in the class, and everyone knew it. I would be flat out bullied in the class and she would turn a blind eye. She would even bully me!

One instance in particular. I had five homework assignments she turned back to me as having poor scores all at once... That night, I kicked butt and got them all corrected with what I thought was right answers... She gives them back to me with marker all over it, "WHAT IS THIS?!?" and "ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?"... My mom saw one of these papers, and rightly flipped out. The next day she was in a meeting with the assistant principal. The outcome? An lying through her teeth apology... Needless to say, that class was hell until the day I got out of it... I don't take AP Calculus now because she teaches it.

High School Math Grades

Algebra I: A/A

Geometry: B+/A-

Honors Algebra II (with her): C-/D

Precalculus (with her): D

I switched out at the semester mark after that altercation, and the second semester of precalc? I got a B. Not a coincidence.

3. As far as the grid method goes, I don't have a clue what it is and don't care to... I had to memorize the table through 20 only like 5-7 years ago... Higher than 20 I use a calculator. If I need to use paper, it takes me a minute max.

[yawetag]

While we're on the subject of horrible teachers: In 8th grade, I had a North Carolina History professor who sent home a letter to the parents on our first day. The letter had, as I remember, many grammatical and spelling errors. My parents laughed at it and signed the attached paper to prove they received the paper.

Fast forward a month or two later. I receive a paper back I had written, with a grade of B. The teacher had marked a few grammar errors (possibly spelling errors, I can't remember) and gave no other indication on why I received a B. I showed it to my dad, who sat down and took my teacher's letter, marking all of the grammar and spelling errors with a red pen. He then wrote a letter to the teacher, essentially saying that he hoped the B wasn't for the grammar and spelling. My dad then hand-delivered it to the teacher the next morning.

[krwill96]

I know this topic took a turn away from the OP but, I am a consultant special education teacher at a small private school. I walked into math class yesterday and the fifth graders were using the grid method but calling it the area method. It actually makes much more sense and easier than multiplying it out for the students once they get how to do it. With the new common core, things are being done differently. The problem is that the groundwork is being taught in the third grade and the students who are above third grade already have already learned the old method so are struggling with it at first.

[Umpire in Chief]

Another not so funny math story. I took up to trig in HS and got a B.

Freshman year at ECU I placed into remedial math. At ECU remedial math was simple algebra. No instructor just a random TA if they showed up but it was self paced.

1st semester freshman year - I Failed,

2nd semester repeat remedial math - Failed

3rd try - Failed.

I just stopped taking math for a while, but then it became a prereq for some classes I needed so I took again and failed.

The funny thing is that by the end of that semester I decided to transfer out of ECU and move back home and go to Old Dominion. I was paying my own tuition and while paying out of state in NC was cheaper than paying instate in VA there were no good jobs in a little town like Greenville. Delivering pizzas was not cutting it.

The same day I took my final exam in remedial math at ECU, which I failed, I took my math placement exam at ODU. I got placed into Calculus. Now my confidence in math had been shot. So rather than taking calc, I opted to take pre-calc. What an awesome decision. It was taught by a TA and TA was a very appropriate title she was smoking hot, and was on the volleyball team. She held my attention every single second of class. I got an A.

So I deduced ECU was running a scam on out of state kids failing them in remedial math to keep the bigger bucks rolling in. A very suspicious thing to me was that you could not get your work back they would just post the grade (by your SSN) outside the door.

[JaxRolo]

Warren,

What is 1+1=?

lol

[mstaylor]

I know this topic took a turn away from the OP but, I am a consultant special education teacher at a small private school. I walked into math class yesterday and the fifth graders were using the grid method but calling it the area method. It actually makes much more sense and easier than multiplying it out for the students once they get how to do it. With the new common core, things are being done differently. The problem is that the groundwork is being taught in the third grade and the students who are above third grade already have already learned the old method so are struggling with it at first.

I'll bite, WTH is common core? I hate all these cute names for old concepts. Test for the older guys, define BCR, ECR

[krwill96]

I don't know why they always change the names but someone in Washington needs a job. The common core is basically a set of standards that are nation wide so if a child moves from one state to another he should be on par with his new classmates. Before it was up to each state on what should be taught and how indepth it would go. This now places much more emphasis on reading in all subject areas. Much more word problems in math, much more extended responses in science or social studies. These are to get the children thinking about why the answer is correct not just getting the answer and moving on. The common core doesn't tell the teacher the method to use, just what needs to be taught.

The main goal behind it is to better prepare the students for college and the workforce. Hopefully it is successful.

[carolinablue]

I know this topic took a turn away from the OP but, I am a consultant special education teacher at a small private school. I walked into math class yesterday and the fifth graders were using the grid method but calling it the area method. It actually makes much more sense and easier than multiplying it out for the students once they get how to do it. With the new common core, things are being done differently. The problem is that the groundwork is being taught in the third grade and the students who are above third grade already have already learned the old method so are struggling with it at first.

When I try to post something sometimes it doesnt post but auto saves it instead. Does this happen to anyone else. I have to go out and then return to get it to post. That's what happened here. ????

[carolinablue]

I know this topic took a turn away from the OP but, I am a consultant special education teacher at a small private school. I walked into math class yesterday and the fifth graders were using the grid method but calling it the area method. It actually makes much more sense and easier than multiplying it out for the students once they get how to do it. With the new common core, things are being done differently. The problem is that the groundwork is being taught in the third grade and the students who are above third grade already have already learned the old method so are struggling with it at first.

Ok, I admit I am no math major for sure but I can do multiplication the old way with no problems. Yes that is how I learned so of course the grid method seems strange to me and I have done it with my son and have said before it's not hard but you say it makes more sense. In what way ? I'm not trying to be an ass I really would like to know how it makes more sense than the traditional method. Also what is wrong with the traditional method that is causing problems for students?

To me it makes less sense because it adds two extra steps of addition that are not in the traditional method. It's like walking around a horses butt to get to his head to me. I might even buy the grid method is easier for some people but am having a hard time seeing how it is better.

The real problem today is that they are not grounding the students in the fundamentals. They are expecting the parents to make sure thier kids know the multiplication tables ect... They don't stay on one thing long enough for a kid to really get it, they are all over the place. When I was in the third grade we spent nearlly an entire year of math learning the multiplucation tables up to 12, day after day after day. Every single student learned them.

[yawetag]

The problem is that the groundwork is being taught in the third grade and the students who are above third grade already have already learned the old method so are struggling with it at first.

One of the private schools my wife and I looked at had switched to the Singapore Math teaching this year, after a pilot class was run last year. As we were taking the tour, a class (I believe 4th or 5th grade) was being taken out to the hall to speak to someone about their "new" math classes. As we walked by, the interviewer asked what the student thought of the new style. His response: "I don't like how we spent so many years learning one thing and now we're forced to learn it another way." It surprised me that a new style wasn't phased in, starting with the lower grades and moving it up as they moved up. That way, the grades that have already learned the old methods weren't being forced into learning new ones.

[krwill96]

I meant to say my students when typing my post. I work with students with disabilitirs that are more successful better using visual representations of concepts. They also do better when the problem is broken down into smaller parts which this does that for the,.

However, it might be easier for all students than the traditional method. It is still new to me to make the determination what is better for the masses. You truly aren't adding more steps besides breaking down the number into tens and ones. You still add like you would normally. The one benefit from this method is before students had difficulty remembering to put a zero as a place holder and getting incorrect answers. I saw this with many students not just the students with disabilities.

We will see if this is better.

And to Yawetag, I agree it doesn't make sense that it is being implemented all at once not phased in. I would have liked to see it phased in so the students do not need to relearn things. However, for some reason, the people in charge said that's what needs to happen so it happens.

[carolinablue]

Traditional method. Multiply the numbers and then add for the answer.

Grid method. Multiply the numbers and then add the top two numbers. Now add the bottom two numbers. Now add those two numbers to get the answer. That is what I mean by two more steps than traditionl method.

Not to mention they have to draw that grid and place the numbers on it.

[johnnyg08]

Except you're thinking of the numbers for what they really are.

Once you get good at it, you can do complex multiplication in your head...but most people give up too quickly to try to get good at it.