Thrown under the bus again!!!

[Cajuncubsfan]

My last post in this was section was my post about "Out of baseline 2".

Well I had the same "partner" I had in that case. This time I had the dish and he had the bases.

Here is what happened.

It's a very lopsided game and the home team is getting killed. There are no outs an the bases are empty. Batter runner hits a fly ball to left center. I have the fly and I'm moving tord the mound. I have a dropped fly ball and then I turn to find my "partner" and the runner. The runner was going back to first and my partner is in possition at second. The coach comes unglued about defensive interference, he is yelling at my partner to make a call. My "partner" after getting chewed on signals for me to talk. He asked me if I saw it, I say "No I had the play ball and by the time the ball hit the ground the runner was going back to first". He tells me "You should have been watching the runner so I can cross over!" (I know this isn't true because I did the same thing he did last year in Dixie Majors and got my head handed to me by a coach. I have never taken my eye off the runner when crossing over sence!) I tell him thats not true, I have the fly and he has the runner. He tells me I'm wrong, I say fine I turn and tell the coach there is no interference because no one saw it. He was pissed to say the least. He told my "partner" that if this was an important game he would have been all over him. (A little history; this coach is known for being very hard on umpires) The coach comes up to me at the third baseline on his way to third and stands next to me. He asks me "So if your partner says you have the fly and the runner what is his job on a fly ball? I tell him that's a good question and he walks away."

So what do y'all think?

[semper_fi_72]

Someone is clueless and needs a mechanics class and it is not you.

[johnnyg08]

You're referring to "obstruction" not "defensive interference" right?

[johnnyg08]

It also sounds like the coach may have good reason to be hard on umpires.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It also sounds like the coach may have good reason to be hard on umpires.

And should be just as hard on himself for referring to obstruction as defensive interference. WTH is defensive interference? I've heard of catcher's interference, which is really obstruction too, but I didn't know that there was a defensive interference. To quote Carl, "Lah me."

[johnnyg08]

And should be just as hard on himself for referring to obstruction as defensive interference. WTH is defensive interference? I've heard of catcher's interference, which is really obstruction too, but I didn't know that there was a defensive interference. To quote Carl, "Lah me."

We assume they don't know what they're talking about. The way it sounds in this league Skip may have had some of his players called for "Defensive Interference" (Which is a spot foul I might add.) :-)

[mw94]

My favorite line taught to me by an MLB umpire at a clinic many years ago, Offensive coach screaming for interference , simply respond " Ok which runner do you want me to call out?"

[SanDiegoSteve]

And should be just as hard on himself for referring to obstruction as defensive interference. WTH is defensive interference? I've heard of catcher's interference, which is really obstruction too, but I didn't know that there was a defensive interference. To quote Carl, "Lah me."

We assume they don't know what they're talking about. The way it sounds in this league Skip may have had some of his players called for "Defensive Interference" (Which is a spot foul I might add.) :-)

Well, at least they didn't call traveling on the play. :)

[Cajuncubsfan]

That was my typing and story telling fault. Abstraction = Defensive interference in this story.

Sorry guys, y'all really can find anything....

[yawetag]

Abstraction

Obstruction.

[Cajuncubsfan]

Abstraction

Obstruction.

Thank you for the correction

[Rich Ives]

It also sounds like the coach may have good reason to be hard on umpires.

And should be just as hard on himself for referring to obstruction as defensive interference. WTH is defensive interference? I've heard of catcher's interference, which is really obstruction too, but I didn't know that there was a defensive interference. To quote Carl, "Lah me."

You know what he meant. Get over it.

[mstaylor]

So if I am following your story, the obstruction happened as the BU was crossing into the infield from B. If so, he can do that and never take his eyes off the runner. If you have the catch he has to have the runner. It is possible that you may have a look but he has an obligation to see it.

[Fittske24]

Ok, I have a couple of things here to consider. These are all a few things that I do that may help you with improving your game management. Ok it’s obvious that your partner needs to attend a mechanics class on the two-man system. So no need to beat a dead horse. There is one thing that jumps out at me that you did during the situation that you should change:

I say fine I turn and tell the coach there is no interference because no one saw it.

First, Never ever tell a coach that no one saw it. As umpires we have to own calls we are responsible for making, even if we didn't see it. Both umpires should be versed enough in the two man system to know who the correct calling umpire is even if one or both don't see the infraction that a manager is questioning.

Second, It sounds like the coach knew who was responsible for making the call because from your post it sounded as if the coach went to your partner first. If he comes to you first, make sure you send him directly to your partner. If your partner needs help have him come to you for additional information.

Third, Once your partner decides to get help from you, before you and your partner start to talk, send the manager back to the dugout or back to the coaches box. This is very important. You or your partner (preferably your partner in this case) should also tell the coach once we complete crew consultation, the decision is final. This will let the coach know if he comes back onto the field to argue, he is guilty of unsportsmanlike behavior and subject to ejection. Once the crew discusses, the calling umpire will be responsible for making the final call/decision even if no one saw it. Once the crew breaks the huddle, the calling umpire will visually and verbally render the decision so both dugouts can hear. In the case of your post, it would have been your partner turning making a "safe mechanic" and saying “no obstruction.†In the event of a call reversal, you do allow the opposing team manager the opportunity to come onto the field for an explanation. Once again the calling umpire should complete the discussion with the opposing manager. Under no circumstances will a second crew consultation be had for the same issue.

If you are working with a weaker partner, or in this case one who has poor game management skills, you might have to instruct him that this is their call and when we break you will make the final decision. Hell I’ve actually told guys before we break our huddle, “now turn around, give a strong mechanic, and make the call.â€

[sdix00]

If this got screwed up with no runners on, I can't image the cluster that ensues when more than one runner enters the mix.

Also, most of these issues go away for $20 and a little study time or a one-day clinic. This is pretty basic stuff. I don't have abstraction, either.

[Cajuncubsfan]

If you are working with a weaker partner, or in this case one who has poor game management skills, you might have to instruct him that this is their call and when we break you will make the final decision. Hell I’ve actually told guys before we break our huddle, “now turn around, give a strong mechanic, and make the call.â€

This umpire has been umpiring for 20 years. He is one of those guys you just can't argue with because he will ask you how long you have been umping. He says he has been to Pro camp and he has all the training video's if I want to use them. That's the kind of guy, one of those you can't tell them there wrong because you have now been around for 20 years. 20 years of doing it wrong!!!

Also, we did make the coach go back to the box.

[24sdad]

he has all the training video's if I want to use them.

You might want to take him up on that offer...since they are probably pristine and still in their original wrapper

[semper_fi_72]

If you are working with a weaker partner, or in this case one who has poor game management skills, you might have to instruct him that this is their call and when we break you will make the final decision. Hell I’ve actually told guys before we break our huddle, “now turn around, give a strong mechanic, and make the call.â€

This umpire has been umpiring for 20 years. He is one of those guys you just can't argue with because he will ask you how long you have been umping. He says he has been to Pro camp and he has all the training video's if I want to use them. That's the kind of guy, one of those you can't tell them there wrong because you have now been around for 20 years. 20 years of doing it wrong!!!

Also, we did make the coach go back to the box.

Had 20 First Years then.

Didn't you pre game coverage?

Or his he to good to pre game?

[jkumpire]

If you are working with a weaker partner, or in this case one who has poor game management skills, you might have to instruct him that this is their call and when we break you will make the final decision. Hell I’ve actually told guys before we break our huddle, “now turn around, give a strong mechanic, and make the call.â€

This umpire has been umpiring for 20 years. He is one of those guys you just can't argue with because he will ask you how long you have been umping. He says he has been to Pro camp and he has all the training video's if I want to use them. That's the kind of guy, one of those you can't tell them there wrong because you have now been around for 20 years. 20 years of doing it wrong!!!

Also, we did make the coach go back to the box.

Had 20 First Years then.

Didn't you pre game coverage?

Or his he to good to pre game?

I would think that what he has is one year of experience 20 times as opposed to 20 years experience.

[Cajuncubsfan]

If you are working with a weaker partner, or in this case one who has poor game management skills, you might have to instruct him that this is their call and when we break you will make the final decision. Hell I’ve actually told guys before we break our huddle, “now turn around, give a strong mechanic, and make the call.â€

This umpire has been umpiring for 20 years. He is one of those guys you just can't argue with because he will ask you how long you have been umping. He says he has been to Pro camp and he has all the training video's if I want to use them. That's the kind of guy, one of those you can't tell them there wrong because you have now been around for 20 years. 20 years of doing it wrong!!!

Also, we did make the coach go back to the box.

Had 20 First Years then.

Didn't you pre game coverage?

Or his he to good to pre game?

We always pre-game, the thing is when there is a contraversal call he can't handle it and puts his partner. I'm not the only one he has done this to. He is notorious for this

[scrounge]

We always pre-game, the thing is when there is a contraversal call he can't handle it and puts his partner. I'm not the only one he has done this to. He is notorious for this

What use is he, then? A 13 yr old or some random mom in the stands can make the obvious calls. It's precisely when he's needed that he flakes out?!?

[Cajuncubsfan]

We always pre-game, the thing is when there is a contraversal call he can't handle it and puts his partner. I'm not the only one he has done this to. He is notorious for this

What use is he, then? A 13 yr old or some random mom in the stands can make the obvious calls. It's precisely when he's needed that he flakes out?!?

I told our scaduler that I requested not to work with him again and I told him that I understood if that effected the number of games I would get. Owell, better than being run over by a bus!!! I can throw myself under the bus just find with out the help of anyone else.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It also sounds like the coach may have good reason to be hard on umpires.

And should be just as hard on himself for referring to obstruction as defensive interference. WTH is defensive interference? I've heard of catcher's interference, which is really obstruction too, but I didn't know that there was a defensive interference. To quote Carl, "Lah me."

You know what he meant. Get over it.

No, I didn't know what the coach meant. I wasn't there. Here is a coach chewing out an umpire, and doesn't know what he's arguing about. By the way, this is Umpire Empire, not Rats 'R' Us. We discuss as umpires, not laymen.

[noumpere]

It also sounds like the coach may have good reason to be hard on umpires.

And should be just as hard on himself for referring to obstruction as defensive interference. WTH is defensive interference? I've heard of catcher's interference, which is really obstruction too, but I didn't know that there was a defensive interference. To quote Carl, "Lah me."

You know what he meant. Get over it.

No, I didn't know what the coach meant. I wasn't there. Here is a coach chewing out an umpire, and doesn't know what he's arguing about. By the way, this is Umpire Empire, not Rats 'R' Us. We discuss as umpires, not laymen.

I agree that when were discussing it here we should use the right term but when a coach is complaneing about a call you know what he means whether he uses one term or the other and your response to him should depend on the circumstances and not the term he uses.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I said that the coach should be hard on himself, not that the umpire didn't know what he meant. I hear obstruction called interference all the time, and I don't correct the coach, but in my response to the coach I say something like, "Coach, it wasn't obstruction on that play, what F5 did was legal." This way, he learns that it was really obstruction he was arguing for, without having to show him up.