R1 & R3 ....B or C?

[Thunderheads]

This has been discussed last month, but the OP was regarding a LL field. That said, there were some posts showing this valid for a big field. Case in point:o

u14 ... big field ....

R1& R3 ...two out. LH pitcher. Makes a move to first...freezes R1, he hesitates, the throw beats him but the tag is MEGA slow and hits hit helmet on a head first slide, I'm in C ...I call "SAFE"....the kid stands up...removes his hands from the base, and F3 re-tags him ... "HE'S OUT NOW!"

Well...what I realized that happened is ....he never made it back to the bag, but I couldn't see it, ....he thought he was out originally and was getting up as I called 'safe' ....fortunately I saw the 're-tag' .... MY FIRST THOUGHT was ...CRAP...I'm in C!

Just a perfect example of how being in B is better than C when you have R1 and R3 because your call is more than likely going to be at first.:o

[Mr Umpire]

Depends on association.

Also, being in B may not help to see if a runner doesn't get back to the base. If they are pretty close and the glove or runner's body blocks it, then there is no way to see it from your angle. A step in toward the mound can help to reduce this but it is a limitation of only having 2 umpires. The best view is an umpire in A position.

I prefer B for the steal attempt at 2B. To me, the look in is better on that side than in C.

[Thunderheads]

Depends on association.

Also, being in B may not help to see if a runner doesn't get back to the base. If they are pretty close and the glove or runner's body blocks it, then there is no way to see it from your angle. A step in toward the mound can help to reduce this but it is a limitation of only having 2 umpires. The best view is an umpire in A position.

I prefer B for the steal attempt at 2B. To me, the look in is better on that side than in C.

Yep, ... a step in toward the mound in B would better than in C also, ...pretty sure

[semper_fi_72]

I feel there is no difference for the look on the steal from B or C as I wind up in the same position to make the call as I follow the ball from the catcher to 2B.

With R1 and R3 I decide B or C based on LH or RH batter.

RH Batter = B

LH Batter = C

I feel that will generally keep me away from the batted ball better.

Remember to always get angle then your distance.

[kcfan102]

I was taught to be in B with R1 and R3.

[JaxRolo]

I was taught to be in C but lately working with more experienced Umps they tell me to be in B

[BrianC14]

I was taught to be in C but lately working with more experienced Umps they tell me to be in B

So you were taught by... inexperienced umpires? :smachhead:

[LMSANS]

So you were taught by... inexperienced umpires?

No he was taught by FED umpires.:hopmad:

[yawetag]

Our association has us in B.

[JaxRolo]

So you were taught by... inexperienced umpires? B)

Actually I wasnt even taught. Had to fend for myself.

What I meant by being taught was that I watched others do it that way.

Edited June 24, 2010 by JaxRolo

[mstaylor]

First and third = B at anytime. The most likely play is going to a steal at second or a double play at second and first. Treat it the same as R1 only.

[JaxRolo]

First and third = B at anytime. The most likely play is going to a steal at second or a double play at second and first. Treat it the same as R1 only.

Got it!

What is the correct position for R3 only?

[mazzamouth]

First and third = B at anytime. The most likely play is going to a steal at second or a double play at second and first. Treat it the same as R1 only.

well not if your using CCA.

Im sorry Mike, I was wrong... you are in B with R3 &R1.. CCA and PBUC are the same here... I had my head somewhere else.

Edited June 25, 2010 by mazzamouth

[mazzamouth]

Got it!

What is the correct position for R3 only?

"C"

[mazzamouth]

Depends on association.

Also, being in B may not help to see if a runner doesn't get back to the base. If they are pretty close and the glove or runner's body blocks it, then there is no way to see it from your angle. A step in toward the mound can help to reduce this but it is a limitation of only having 2 umpires. The best view is an umpire in A position.

I prefer B for the steal attempt at 2B. To me, the look in is better on that side than in C.

I will disagree.. With a good Drop step/ Opening the gate toward 2nd, the play will open up to you right in front of you.

[PeteBooth]

MY FIRST THOUGHT was ...CRAP...I'm in C!

Just a perfect example of how being in B is better than C when you have R1 and R3 because your call is more than likely going to be at first.B)

IMO, the reason you missed the tag has NOTHING to do with being in the B or C position but the ANGLE you had. From your OP you had a bad angle hence you missed the tag in the first place.

Even in B if you do not move FORWARD first to get the angle you will miss the tag.

As others mentioned position yourself where your association wants you to be, however, you must also get the proper angle no matter if you are in B or C.

Pete Booth

[yawetag]

Got it!

What is the correct position for R3 only?

C. You're in position for a pick-off or quick throw to third.

[tommy]

the two man system is what it is. we are not always going to be where the play happens even when we are in the correct possition

R1 B... R1 & R2 C... R1, R2 & R3 B

R2 only C... R2 & R3 B

R3 only B... R1 & R3 B

like it or not those are the correct places to be working a two man system.

[yawetag]

R1, R2 & R3 B

R2 & R3 B

R3 only B

I, along with PBUC's Red Book, disagree with those three.

This is what the Red Book says, and how I was trained:

No one on -- A

R1 -- B

R2 -- C

R3 -- C

R1, R2 -- C

R1, R3 -- B

R2, R3 -- C

R1, R2, R3 -- C

Edited June 25, 2010 by yawetag

[mstaylor]

There are differences between CCA and pro two man. I doit and teach exactly what Tommy says.

[noumpere]

There are differences between CCA and pro two man. I doit and teach exactly what Tommy says.

And theses teachings change from time to time, and there are other mechanics as well.

All agree that with no one one it's A, and with R1 only it's B, and with R2 only or R1,R2 it's C.

Other than that, B or C can work depending opn the specific play involved. Of course, we don't know the specific play until it's too late.

What matters, of course, is not where you start, but where you finish.

[dumbdumb]

I, along with PBUC's Red Book, disagree with those three.

This is what the Red Book says, and how I was trained:

No one on -- A

R1 -- B

R2 -- C

R3 -- C

R1, R2 -- C

R1, R3 -- B

R2, R3 -- C

R1, R2, R3 -- C

Seems the R1, R3 ---B, has changed from what a friend told me years ago. Also, it seem like it went to R1, R3 ---B, only with 2 outs (optional) first, before going to R1, R3 ---B that it is today.

[tommy]

You know I go to quite a few camps and clinics each year, some because i want to and some are mandatory for the associations I work for and this is a great topic that is very rarely discused. It is aparent that diferent areas or groups teach diferent ways of doing things.

I guess the best thing to say is do things the way your association tells you to and sooner or later it will become second natuer and you will simply know where to be.

[yawetag]

I guess the best thing to say is do things the way your association tells you to and sooner or later it will become second natuer and you will simply know where to be.

The local park I umpire has literally switched B/C responsibilities, so "you can watch the pitcher for balks AND the base he's throwing to at the same time."

I haven't done it yet. IF I get evaluated (HA!), I'll have one question for him: Did I miss any calls?

[tommy]

lol ! thats pretty funny