Get the call right

[Richvee]

I had a crazy JV game today. Run of the mill through 6 1/2 innings. I was BU. Some bangers, some good outfield throws to nail a few runners, but nothing unusual.

Then came bottom 7. VT up 7-0. R1, R2, 1 out. GB to F5, he steps on 3rd, OUT, he throws to 1st, I drop step and follow the ball to 1st, making sure I don't get in the way of the throw and trying to get some angle for the call @1st which is going to be close. I set, it's a banger, and I call BR OUT! I'm seeing and hearing a lot of gripping from the 1B coach, BR, and the stands. I take a look at my partner and he's signaling me that he's got something. I call time and tell the players to stay there a minute. PU says F3 was off the bag. In fact, never on it, just in front of it. My partner's got the better angle there, so I go along with what he's got, "SAFE. FOOT OFF THE BAG". No complaints from the defense. Hey, they're up 7-0 with 2 outs, right?

Well, 5 hits, 2 errors, and 2 pitchers later, I'm watching a bases loaded, base clearing, game winning shot into the left center field gap. HT wins 8-7.

Lesson learned. Get the call right whenever possible. Whatever the situation. You never know what's going to happen. I was a little upset I missed the foot being off the bag, but I'm sure glad we got it right.

Is there a way I should have positioned myself after the the play at 3rd the would have given me a better angle at 1st? I took my step forward on the GB, turned to see the play @3rd, then dropped stepped and got about another step and and half towards 1st while following the ball before I set myself.

[cnelsoGA1]

Foot off the bag as a BU is VERY difficult from B or C, especially when its just barely. Thats what the PU is there for, nice work.

[The Adjudicator]

The PU has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the PU and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the PU does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

[Richvee]

The PU has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the PU and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the PU does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

I'm real glad the PU had the play. I never thought about a "pulled foot" on this play because F3 didn't "pull" his foot. The throw was true, but F3 was NEVER on the bag. Standing a few inches off the inside corner of the bag, the foot never moved, so from my point of view, I had an out.

[The Adjudicator]

I did I not catch that earlier, in that case we revert to explaining why pros have 3 and 4 man crews.

[Jimurray]

The <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

If you have R2 in this sit you have to pre game what you want, the pulled foot at 1B or the second play at 3B. Edited to add:

Nevermind, rereading the OP you already had an out at 3B and PU was free to look at pulled foot.

[BT_Blue]

I completely, totally, and categorically disagree with going to your partner before making a call in this situation. Its your call... make the damn call. If something happens, like in the OP, that makes you question if you missed something then get together... but not before that.

As for positioning... if you can try and make your way, as much as possible, towards the 45' line. It will open up your view of 1B instead of getting straight lined like you did. Some times it isnt possible but it is something to strive for.

[johnnyg08]

Foot off the bag as a BU is VERY difficult from B or C, especially when its just barely. Thats what the PU is there for, nice work.

But it is a huge advantage on a banger for F3. It is something we need to be aware of. Esp on a close play. I admit, I'm hesitant to ask on a banger that looks routine in every way except that F3's cheating.

[MidAmUmp]

I had a crazy JV game today. Run of the mill through 6 1/2 innings. I was <acronym title='Base umpire'>BU</acronym>. Some bangers, some good outfield throws to nail a few runners, but nothing unusual.

Then came bottom 7. <acronym title='Visiting team'>VT</acronym> up 7-0. <acronym title='Base runner at 1B'>R1</acronym>, <acronym title='Base runner at 2B'>R2</acronym>, 1 out. GB to <acronym title='Third baseman'>F5</acronym>, he steps on 3rd, OUT, he throws to 1st, I drop step and follow the ball to 1st, making sure I don't get in the way of the throw and trying to get some angle for the call @1st which is going to be close. I set, it's a banger, and I call <acronym title='Batter-runner'>BR </acronym>OUT! I'm seeing and hearing a lot of gripping from the 1B coach, BR, and the stands. I take a look at my partner and he's signaling me that he's got something. I call time and tell the players to stay there a minute. <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> says <acronym title='First baseman'>F3 </acronym>was off the bag. In fact, never on it, just in front of it. My partner's got the better angle there, so I go along with what he's got, "SAFE. FOOT OFF THE BAG". No complaints from the defense. Hey, they're up 7-0 with 2 outs, right?

Well, 5 hits, 2 errors, and 2 pitchers later, I'm watching a bases loaded, base clearing, game winning shot into the left center field gap. <acronym title='Home team'>HT</acronym> wins 8-7.

Lesson learned. Get the call right whenever possible. Whatever the situation. You never know what's going to happen. I was a little upset I missed the foot being off the bag, but I'm sure glad we got it right.

Is there a way I should have positioned myself after the the play at 3rd the would have given me a better angle at 1st? I took my step forward on the GB, turned to see the play @3rd, then dropped stepped and got about another step and and half towards 1st while following the ball before I set myself.

Based on what I've read of your description of the play, I would say maybe you could have gotten closer to 1st base, possibly running in a straight line from "C" to the back of the mound on the 1st base side of the infield (letting the throw to 1st pass by & turn you...of course). Principle #1 is assume all ground balls on the infield will be going to 1st and start working that way. It sounds like the play @ 3rd was pretty wide open, so no real need to step towards 3rd. I know it may seem wrong to move away from the play, but it's the same as you would do on a routine double play drift. Obvioulsy you have to take some self preservation into account and try to avoid the throw to 1st.

That can be a pretty tough call. I'm not a big advocate of getting help on pulled foot/swipe tag plays. I'm 100% opposed to asking for help before making the call - it's your call, make it, if necessary you can always get help later. I'd rather see the umpire get in better position and make their own call. A lot of times I see umpires using it because of laziness (not saying you were) or as a cop out because they didn't want to make a tough call (you definitely weren't). All in all, you guys got the call right and sometimes there's no other option but to get help.

Hope this isn't too confusing.

[detailshp]

The PU has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the PU and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the PU does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

I've been on both sides of this mechanic. Personally, I have never not made a call, but I have certainly said "He's OUT" and immediately pointed to my PU and said " DID HE PULL HIS FOOT"

I've had State tournament umpires working the bases point and me and say "did he pull his foot" without making an initial call, so I know that it can go either way. I don't necessarily agree with that, but If your in the right position as the PU, then when a partner asks me for help, I give it.

I dont like not making a call for the simple reason that you can "lull" a fielder into sleep ( Is this the 3rd out or should I now attempt to throw to third and get the kid who is now advancing...now you got Fubar..) and everyone kinda stands around and waits to see what happens.

Bet this thread gets talked about.....LOL......

[SnareDrum]

Similar Sitch for me last week...

R2, B1 bunts. F1, F3 and F5 charge. I was in C, and F1 scoops up the ball. As I moved towards 1B, I saw F4 frozen out of the corner of my eye, so I knew there wouldn't be a play at 1B. I hesitated a beat in case of a play at 3B, but as the pitcher came up he turned to 1B and so did I. F1 whips it to F3 who swipe tags batter-runner as he goes by about halfway up the line. I didn't see a tag because the glove disappeared behind the runner. I called "Safe", and after the play was over, I pointed at my partner and said, "You got a tag?" He pumped and said "Yes!" I signaled the out and we moved on.

In hindsight, there really wasn't a perfect angle for me on that play, but we got it right.

[sdix00]

Based on what I've read of your description of the play, I would say maybe you could have gotten closer to 1st base, possibly running in a straight line from "C" to the back of the mound on the 1st base side of the infield (letting the throw to 1st pass by & turn you...of course). Principle #1 is assume all ground balls on the infield will be going to 1st and start working that way. It sounds like the play @ 3rd was pretty wide open, so no real need to step towards 3rd. I know it may seem wrong to move away from the play, but it's the same as you would do on a routine double play drift. Obvioulsy you have to take some self preservation into account and try to avoid the throw to 1st.

This is great advice about a very effective mechanic. Anticipating a play at 1B on all GBs solves a lot of issues. One of those issues is avoiding getting in the path of the throw to first. I used to phrase it "the unexpected throw to 1B", but now I anticipate it so it is no longer an issue. Another advantage is that it gives you time to build an angle at the base where the most judgement will be required.

It is very counter-intuitive until you drill it, but then it makes a lot of sense and is easy to execute. A perfect example of Umpiring vs watching like a player/coach/fan.

[Richvee]

I had a crazy JV game today. Run of the mill through 6 1/2 innings. I was BU. Some bangers, some good outfield throws to nail a few runners, but nothing unusual.

Then came bottom 7. VT up 7-0. R1, R2, 1 out. GB to F5, he steps on 3rd, OUT, he throws to 1st, I drop step and follow the ball to 1st, making sure I don't get in the way of the throw and trying to get some angle for the call @1st which is going to be close. I set, it's a banger, and I call BR OUT! I'm seeing and hearing a lot of gripping from the 1B coach, BR, and the stands. I take a look at my partner and he's signaling me that he's got something. I call time and tell the players to stay there a minute. PU says F3 was off the bag. In fact, never on it, just in front of it. My partner's got the better angle there, so I go along with what he's got, "SAFE. FOOT OFF THE BAG". No complaints from the defense. Hey, they're up 7-0 with 2 outs, right?

Well, 5 hits, 2 errors, and 2 pitchers later, I'm watching a bases loaded, base clearing, game winning shot into the left center field gap. HT wins 8-7.

Lesson learned. Get the call right whenever possible. Whatever the situation. You never know what's going to happen. I was a little upset I missed the foot being off the bag, but I'm sure glad we got it right.

Is there a way I should have positioned myself after the the play at 3rd the would have given me a better angle at 1st? I took my step forward on the GB, turned to see the play @3rd, then dropped stepped and got about another step and and half towards 1st while following the ball before I set myself.

Based on what I've read of your description of the play, I would say maybe you could have gotten closer to 1st base, possibly running in a straight line from "C" to the back of the mound on the 1st base side of the infield (letting the throw to 1st pass by & turn you...of course). Principle #1 is assume all ground balls on the infield will be going to 1st and start working that way. It sounds like the play @ 3rd was pretty wide open, so no real need to step towards 3rd. I know it may seem wrong to move away from the play, but it's the same as you would do on a routine double play drift. Obvioulsy you have to take some self preservation into account and try to avoid the throw to 1st.

That can be a pretty tough call. I'm not a big advocate of getting help on pulled foot/swipe tag plays. I'm 100% opposed to asking for help before making the call - it's your call, make it, if necessary you can always get help later. I'd rather see the umpire get in better position and make their own call. A lot of times I see umpires using it because of lazyness (not saying you were) or as a cop out because they didn't want to make a tough call (you definitely weren't). All in all, you guys got the call right and sometimes there's no other option but to get help.

Hope this isn't too confusing.

That's great! Thanks. Seems so simple, but to start by moving away from the play will take some getting used to, but that's EXACTLY what would have let me get better angle and distance to possibly see that foot off the bag myself. Like you correctly stated, it wasn't going to be close @3rd. 1st was where the close play was going to be all along. Now I'm looking forward to the next Sitch that requires such a move :rock

[Replacematt]

Here's why you don't ask before a call--you're assuming he's got something. When he gives you the shoulder shrugs, the whole world knows neither of you saw it. Make a call to the best of the evidence you have, then see what evidence he has.

[noumpere]

Based on what I've read of your description of the play, I would say maybe you could have gotten closer to 1st base, possibly running in a straight line from "C" to the back of the mound on the 1st base side of the infield (letting the throw to 1st pass by & turn you...of course). Principle #1 is assume all ground balls on the infield will be going to 1st and start working that way. It sounds like the play @ 3rd was pretty wide open, so no real need to step towards 3rd. I know it may seem wrong to move away from the play, but it's the same as you would do on a routine double play drift. Obvioulsy you have to take some self preservation into account and try to avoid the throw to 1st.

This is great advice about a very effective mechanic. Anticipating a play at 1B on all GBs solves a lot of issues. One of those issues is avoiding getting in the path of the throw to first. I used to phrase it "the unexpected throw to 1B", but now I anticipate it so it is no longer an issue. Another advantage is that it gives you time to build an angle at the base where the most judgement will be required.

It is very counter-intuitive until you drill it, but then it makes a lot of sense and is easy to execute. A perfect example of Umpiring vs watching like a player/coach/fan.

While I would agree I would also add that you need to be sure that your not running away from what becomes a charlie-foxtrot at third base. Now thats not likely to happen in the play presented but what if the third baseman had tried for a tag of the runner and it was a swipe tag / out of the baseline call and your not now in a good position to see it. Its all part of the art of umpiring and reading the play and adjusting.

Also on the second play at first the best angle is probably back toward the base line from first to second so dont necessarily move to right behind the mound and let the throw turn you but move to the side of the working area and then back toward the base line if its a good throw and toward the 1st base line if its a bad throw to try to see a swipe tag.

[Texarkana]

There are a couple of guys I call prety regularly with that I would have looked at them quickly and they would have let me know if I had a pulled foot or not and I would have made the call and not a soul in the park would have known that we had just worked together in making the call except for us. I usually cover this in my pregame talk at the car. I would have let my partner know to look at me and if I had the out sign showing in front of me he was out but if I was moving my hand he had pulled. I just put it in front of me (in front by the right side of my belly) where you would have to be looking for it to see it. I have had coaches come out and ask and once they know you were working together it is a dead issue. I guess you better know who your partner is and make sure you cover these things before hitting the field. Not sure what the big time schools teach but this is what I have always used and have had no problems with it.

[JaxRolo]

Yes you got the call right but was it done properly?

I am asking because I really don't know the answer.

Was the PU wrong in saying he had something without it being appealed?

Are you supposed to let it go with out an appeal? or if you see it call it?

[NavyUmp]

The PU has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the PU and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the PU does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

DON"T DO THIS! It has already been explained why

[sdix00]

The PU has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the PU and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the PU does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

In all seriousness, I suppose it's personal preference. :)

[MidAmUmp]

The <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

In all seriousness, I suppose it's personal preference.

That's beautiful!!!

[Texarkana]

The PU has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the PU and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the PU does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

In all seriousness, I suppose it's personal preference.

This is funny as hades. Where did you find this?

[cyclonehokiece]

The PU has the responsibility for a pulled foot on 1st when you are in B or C, if you have any doubts if he held the bag you should immediately point to the PU and holler "did he have the bag"

When he answers you make the call. When properly executed it is a beautiful mechanic, if the PU does not do his job you are left out to dry and have to call the out.

In all seriousness, I suppose it's personal preference.

You forgot this one:

[Richvee]

Yes you got the call right but was it done properly?

I am asking because I really don't know the answer.

Was the PU wrong in saying he had something without it being appealed?

Are you supposed to let it go with out an appeal? or if you see it call it?

In this particular case, PU just signaled me that he had something. I pregame this all the time. My association, we just use arms crossed to signal that we might have some info our partner might find useful. From there, you can decide what you would like to do.. Go to him for the info,.. stick with your call...Wait to see if a coach wants you to ask for help. With the folded arms signal, I know if my partner's got something.

[sdix00]

You forgot this one:

FIFY

[umpire78]

I had a crazy JV game today. Run of the mill through 6 1/2 innings. I was BU. Some bangers, some good outfield throws to nail a few runners, but nothing unusual.

Then came bottom 7. VT up 7-0. R1, R2, 1 out. GB to F5, he steps on 3rd, OUT, he throws to 1st, I drop step and follow the ball to 1st, making sure I don't get in the way of the throw and trying to get some angle for the call @1st which is going to be close. I set, it's a banger, and I call BR OUT! I'm seeing and hearing a lot of gripping from the 1B coach, BR, and the stands. I take a look at my partner and he's signaling me that he's got something. I call time and tell the players to stay there a minute. PU says F3 was off the bag. In fact, never on it, just in front of it. My partner's got the better angle there, so I go along with what he's got, "SAFE. FOOT OFF THE BAG". No complaints from the defense. Hey, they're up 7-0 with 2 outs, right?

Well, 5 hits, 2 errors, and 2 pitchers later, I'm watching a bases loaded, base clearing, game winning shot into the left center field gap. HT wins 8-7.

Lesson learned. Get the call right whenever possible. Whatever the situation. You never know what's going to happen. I was a little upset I missed the foot being off the bag, but I'm sure glad we got it right.

Is there a way I should have positioned myself after the the play at 3rd the would have given me a better angle at 1st? I took my step forward on the GB, turned to see the play @3rd, then dropped stepped and got about another step and and half towards 1st while following the ball before I set myself.

I've gone to my partner perhaps 5 times in 32 years. And, I have changed MY call. I don't "cede" my call to my partner, I just ask for more information (foot off the bag, etc), then I either stick with my original call OR change it. I want to get the play right and, if my partner can help me, great.