Touching the Cathers Back?

[johnnyg08]

I know, it's going to start picking up. Thankfully!

[yawetag]

the only times i will touch a catcher is when i shake his hand at introductions, or if he moves inside late.

Or to stop him from backing into you.

[cuban]

Thank you for all the helpful comments fellas. It looks like I have a habit to break...

[catsbackr]

I am a former catcher, too. It never bothered me at all if the umpire put his hand on my back.

I agree with detailshp, I will only do it during warmups or with a catcher change to get comfortable with catcher's positioning.

[Thunderheads]

If it makes you feel comfortable, I don't see any problem asking the catcher about it. Telling him why you're doing it, etc, etc....

If you're just barely using your finger tip on the cross-section of his chest protector, he'll probably never feel it ....

[cuban]

If it makes you feel comfortable, I don't see any problem asking the catcher about it. Telling him why you're doing it, etc, etc....

If you're just barely using your finger tip on the cross-section of his chest protector, he'll probably never feel it ....

That's basically what my evaluator said. He said if given the choice, he would prefer I don't touch the catcher. However, he said he see to many "big time" guys (that know what they are doing) doing it to really say it's a no-no.

I would like to add that I can only think of two times in the past ten years where a catcher has said anything to me about it.

[cuban]

I just spoke with a buddy of mine who made it to AA. I don't want to give his name but he is in the book "As They See Em" (for what that's worth).

Anyhow here's what he said...

"Screw them! If that's how you want to work, do it. If they don't like it they can tell you".

He went on to say, "If a catcher does ask you not to touch them, you can ablige".

However, he said he would say something like this, "Sure, I won't touch you. No problem. But hey catch, remember this, the other 150 games I work, I work them a specific way. If you don't want me to work like that today and you want me to do something different then every other game of the year, sure ok..."

He claimed that if you say that, the catcher will change his mind.

My buddy also told me a story about a time where a coach was bitchen about balls and strike. Well, the umpire told the coach that his catcher would not let him touch his back and that it was effecting the way he called the game. Coach put in a different catcher. lol

[JaxRolo]

I just spoke with a buddy of mine who made it to AA. I don't want to give his name but he is in the book "As They See Em" (for what that's worth).

Anyhow here's what he said...

"Screw them! If that's how you want to work, do it. If they don't like it they can tell you".

He went on to say, "If a catcher does ask you not to touch them, you can ablige".

However, he said he would say something like this, "Sure, I won't touch you. No problem. But hey catch, remember this, the other 150 games I work, I work them a specific way. If you don't want me to work like that today and you want me to do something different then every other game of the year, sure ok..."

He claimed that if you say that, the catcher will change his mind.

My buddy also told me a story about a time where a coach was bitchen about balls and strike. Well, the umpire told the coach that his catcher would not let him touch his back and that it was effecting the way he called the game. Coach put in a different catcher. lol

WOW!!!

I do not like that response from your buddy at all!

JMHO

[Thunderheads]

I just spoke with a buddy of mine who made it to AA. I don't want to give his name but he is in the book "As They See Em" (for what that's worth).

Anyhow here's what he said...

"Screw them! If that's how you want to work, do it. If they don't like it they can tell you".

He went on to say, "If a catcher does ask you not to touch them, you can ablige".

However, he said he would say something like this, "Sure, I won't touch you. No problem. But hey catch, remember this, the other 150 games I work, I work them a specific way. If you don't want me to work like that today and you want me to do something different then every other game of the year, sure ok..."

He claimed that if you say that, the catcher will change his mind.

My buddy also told me a story about a time where a coach was bitchen about balls and strike. Well, the umpire told the coach that his catcher would not let him touch his back and that it was effecting the way he called the game. Coach put in a different catcher. lol

WOW!!!

I do not like that response from your buddy at all!

JMHO

Don't worry Rolando, it wasn't just you ......... :HS

[cuban]

I just spoke with a buddy of mine who made it to AA. I don't want to give his name but he is in the book "As They See Em" (for what that's worth).

Anyhow here's what he said...

"Screw them! If that's how you want to work, do it. If they don't like it they can tell you".

He went on to say, "If a catcher does ask you not to touch them, you can ablige".

However, he said he would say something like this, "Sure, I won't touch you. No problem. But hey catch, remember this, the other 150 games I work, I work them a specific way. If you don't want me to work like that today and you want me to do something different then every other game of the year, sure ok..."

He claimed that if you say that, the catcher will change his mind.

My buddy also told me a story about a time where a coach was bitchen about balls and strike. Well, the umpire told the coach that his catcher would not let him touch his back and that it was effecting the way he called the game. Coach put in a different catcher. lol

WOW!!!

I do not like that response from your buddy at all!

JMHO

Don't worry Rolando, it wasn't just you .........

I can understand how that response could bother some people but atleast the guy was honest.

[grayhawk]

I just spoke with a buddy of mine who made it to AA. I don't want to give his name but he is in the book "As They See Em" (for what that's worth).

Anyhow here's what he said...

"Screw them! If that's how you want to work, do it. If they don't like it they can tell you".

He went on to say, "If a catcher does ask you not to touch them, you can ablige".

However, he said he would say something like this, "Sure, I won't touch you. No problem. But hey catch, remember this, the other 150 games I work, I work them a specific way. If you don't want me to work like that today and you want me to do something different then every other game of the year, sure ok..."

He claimed that if you say that, the catcher will change his mind.

My buddy also told me a story about a time where a coach was bitchen about balls and strike. Well, the umpire told the coach that his catcher would not let him touch his back and that it was effecting the way he called the game. Coach put in a different catcher. lol

Your buddy is exactly why catchers who hate being touched won't usually say something - they are afraid of retribution. Last time I checked, the game is about the players, not the umpires. It's one thing to let a catcher know, for example, that you can't see a pitch when he is set up inside. It's a whole different thing to imply that you are going to F them because you can't use your peripheral vision to set up properly. Not. A. Fan. of this guy's attitude at all - at least not at the levels I work.

[cuban]

I just spoke with a buddy of mine who made it to AA. I don't want to give his name but he is in the book "As They See Em" (for what that's worth).

Anyhow here's what he said...

"Screw them! If that's how you want to work, do it. If they don't like it they can tell you".

He went on to say, "If a catcher does ask you not to touch them, you can ablige".

However, he said he would say something like this, "Sure, I won't touch you. No problem. But hey catch, remember this, the other 150 games I work, I work them a specific way. If you don't want me to work like that today and you want me to do something different then every other game of the year, sure ok..."

He claimed that if you say that, the catcher will change his mind.

My buddy also told me a story about a time where a coach was bitchen about balls and strike. Well, the umpire told the coach that his catcher would not let him touch his back and that it was effecting the way he called the game. Coach put in a different catcher. lol

Your buddy is exactly why catchers who hate being touched won't usually say something - they are afraid of retribution. Last time I checked, the game is about the players, not the umpires. It's one thing to let a catcher know, for example, that you can't see a pitch when he is set up inside. It's a whole different thing to imply that you are going to F them because you can't use your peripheral vision to set up properly. Not. A. Fan. of this guy's attitude at all - at least not at the levels I work.

I don't think he was implying that he was going to screw anybody over on purpose. I believe what he was trying to say was, that he works a certain way. If you ask him to change one day out of the year you might not get the same preformance that you get in all his other games. It would be like telling a hitter to change his batting stance for just one game out of the year. Atleast that's what I took from it...

[SAB_UIC_TX]

One more former catcher that HATED, HATED, HATED the umpire touching me. Made me feel restricted like he was trying to keep me in a spot just for him regardless of where the ball was. I've heard guys say they do this so they know when the catcher moves or changes positions. Really, is your perception of movement that poor that you don't know when the guy 12 inches in front of you moves? It was said eariler, if things start going South, bad throw, passed ball that gives up a run and you've got your hand on him you're just grabbed the S*#@ end of the stick and will get a coach up in your grill.

There's never a reason to touch a player, behind the plate or to break up a fight, never.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

I just spoke with a buddy of mine who made it to AA. I don't want to give his name but he is in the book "As They See Em" (for what that's worth). Anyhow here's what he said... "Screw them! If that's how you want to work, do it. If they don't like it they can tell you". He went on to say, "If a catcher does ask you not to touch them, you can ablige". However, he said he would say something like this, "Sure, I won't touch you. No problem. But hey catch, remember this, the other 150 games I work, I work them a specific way. If you don't want me to work like that today and you want me to do something different then every other game of the year, sure ok..." He claimed that if you say that, the catcher will change his mind. My buddy also told me a story about a time where a coach was bitchen about balls and strike. Well, the umpire told the coach that his catcher would not let him touch his back and that it was effecting the way he called the game. Coach put in a different catcher. lol

Your buddy is exactly why catchers who hate being touched won't usually say something - they are afraid of retribution. Last time I checked, the game is about the players, not the umpires. It's one thing to let a catcher know, for example, that you can't see a pitch when he is set up inside. It's a whole different thing to imply that you are going to F them because you can't use your peripheral vision to set up properly. Not. A. Fan. of this guy's attitude at all - at least not at the levels I work.

I don't think he was implying that he was going to screw anybody over on purpose. I believe what he was trying to say was, that he works a certain way. If you ask him to change one day out of the year you might not get the same preformance that you get in all his other games. It would be like telling a hitter to change his batting stance for just one game out of the year. Atleast that's what I took from it...

Those 2 words kinda set the tone for his intent, don't they?

[Guest]

This discussion is getting silly.

First, to repeat my thoughts from earlier, this is not a youth or high school baseball appropriate mechanic. There is no reason to be using this at any level below high-competative adult (READ: no beer leagues) and professional baseball.

Second, catchers at those levels may prefer umpires not touch them. But they accept it as a necessary part of that umpire's method of working the plate. Furthermore, chances are if a catcher knows you are touching him every single pitch, the umpire is being more forceful then necessary. Why Phil Cuzzi insists on his bear hug, I have no idea. My brother is a catcher playing college showcase baseball. I worked a plate game with him catching once and did a little firsthand participant observation. Before the game, I told him I would be putting my hand on his back some innings and others I wouldn't. Every 2-3 innings, I would ask him if he noticed when I was and wasn't doing it. He could not tell the difference. For the sake of full disclosure, he was wearing an All Star System 7 CP and I was putting the fingertips of all four fingers on the triangular back piece of the barness marked "System 7 gear." I then borrowed the same CP and one night had a friend repeat the experiment, with me catching. I could also not tell a difference.

Third, yes there are reasons to do this. Again though, those reasons don't become evident until working higher levels of baseball. One may think they know peripheral vision can be used to gather the same information, but, at least in my experience, this is not the case. Truthfully though, it only made a difference when he was catching his more skilled pitchers with greater and later movement on all of their stuff. For instance, I could tell, when he wanted the pitch on the outer third, when he had to shift his body ever so slightly in order to catch the ball directly in front of his body to try and sell that the pitch caught the outside corner. Talking after the game, he said he was usually able to get those pitches called strikes but every one I balled was off the plate.

Before you are ready to proclaim this as "needless", make sure you have a full understanding of the reason(s) a plate umpire would be doing this.

[mstaylor]

I understand exactly why it is done, I have worked good adult and D1 college. I still don't see a need.

[grayhawk]

I'd buy it if most MLB umpires did it. Most don't, so it seems there are other acceptable ways to stay "in tune" with the catcher's position without touching him - even at the highest level of baseball.

[mstaylor]

I'd buy it if most MLB umpires did it. Most don't, so it seems there are other acceptable ways to stay "in tune" with the catcher's position without touching him - even at the highest level of baseball.

Agreed, it is more acceptable at the pro level, is there a need, I don't see it. The attitude by the AA umpire, really unneeded.

[mw94]

Well you will not see any of the newer MLB umpires touching the catcher, I had the privilage this winter of working with 2, AAA umpires that worked the AZ. Fall League , and they said Randy Marsh hates touching of the catcher and have been told " Don't Touch" the older guys as had already been said, can do whatever they want ,

[Chris Hickman]

I am staying out of this one.... Can anyone guess why?

[Guest]

Mike,

I am not advocating the use or disuse of this "mechanic." Like many other things, amateur umpires see pro guys doing this and blindly implement it into their game without any understanding of its proper use. At the same time, advantages to doing this do exist and it is incorrect for anyone on here to state it is completely unacceptable to do this, especially given the fact some have not been exposed to situations where they would be able to see its advantages. With that said, typically to get to that level, you have to be pretty good as it is without doing it. In the end, it equates to a personal choice

And, if anyone thinks I do this and I'm defending my use of it, go check my last blog post and look at the picture of me in the Rogers Centre. I'd attach it myself but I'm currently writing this on a BlackBerry on the back of a bus. I'm merely trying to provide information on the topic.

[mstaylor]

I am staying out of this one.... Can anyone guess why?

You're trying to get nominated again?

Ump24:

Evidently your Blackberry has a stutter and double posted. I went ahead and deleted the second post.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

Mike,

I am not advocating the use or disuse of this "mechanic." Like many other things, amateur umpires see pro guys doing this and blindly implement it into their game without any understanding of its proper use. At the same time, advantages to doing this do exist and it is incorrect for anyone on here to state it is completely unacceptable to do this, especially given the fact some have not been exposed to situations where they would be able to see its advantages. With that said, typically to get to that level, you have to be pretty good as it is without doing it. In the end, it equates to a personal choice

And, if anyone thinks I do this and I'm defending my use of it, go check my last blog post and look at the picture of me in the Rogers Centre. I'd attach it myself but I'm currently writing this on a BlackBerry on the back of a bus. I'm merely trying to provide information on the topic.

Please explain why and where you feel touching the catcher is necessary.

[mstaylor]

Necessary isn't the correct question, advantage is the correct one. What he is saying is by touching the catcher you can feel subtle moves by the catcher that will give you added imput on balls and strikes. I don't really agree but he isn't really either. He isn't saying he does it, but instead at a high enough level it can be helpful. He's not even saying whether he agrees or not, just presenting information.

[Guest]

Necessary isn't the correct question, advantage is the correct one. What he is saying is by touching the catcher you can feel subtle moves by the catcher that will give you added imput on balls and strikes. I don't really agree but he isn't really either. He isn't saying he does it, but instead at a high enough level it can be helpful. He's not even saying whether he agrees or not, just presenting information.

1) Thanks for deleting the double post.

2) Good summary of my thoughts.