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Everything posted by Jimurray

  1. Jimurray

    Stealing Home

    The special penalty is 5.09(b): (8)  He attempts to score on a play in which the batter interferes with the play at home base before two are out. With two out, the interference puts the batter out and no score counts;"
  2. So why not post that info in the original thread instead of revisiting with this thread without advising of what you already knew?
  3. The order of appeals does matter if one is a missed forced base and one is a missed base that was not forced that add up to the third out. But who/what are you citing as to whether the order of two forced base appeals matters?
  4. This rule existed since at least 2013, my bold: 8-5-j. "The individual fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags the runner or the base after the runner has been forced to advance because the batter became a runner; Exception—No runner can be forced out if a runner who follows in the batting order is put out first. However, if a runner is put out during live action, it does not remove the force on any runners who might subsequently be declared out for a running infraction."
  5. I don't know what the NCAA rules were back then but the current rules would make that advantageous fourth out a force out. Where NCAA differs from OBR is if it was 1 out and the batter missed 1B also appealing him first in relaxed action would make the appeal of missing R2 2B not a force any more.
  6. I believe MLB in the Jaska-Roder era actually had this as their procedure. Ball live when pitcher takes the rubber with it. In the following years MLB certainly seemed lax in a point or a "play" but their MLBUM did reference the need to do at least a point and have a batter in the box. In recent years most of them seem to be pointing the ball in play consistently. Muchlinski in game WS game 6 seemed to me to do it consistently.
  7. In OBR according to Wendelstedt if the force existed at the time of the miss it will be a forced base appeal.
  8. 5.09(b)(c) does not clearly point out that the the force is removed when a missed base is appealed and the force existed at that the time of the miss. If fact the wording of that rule needs some common sense applied. "(6)  He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out." The BR out at 1B is not a force play but yes it does remove the force in live action. "The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out." While this sentence follows the following runner being put out sentence we know that the force has already been removed in live action and that force is not again removed by the runner touching the base. This refers to when the runner touches the base while still forced. "However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;" The force play is reinstated if it still exists. In your OP you do not have a forced and unforced runner: "So, in essence, we now have the lead runner (R2) NO LONGER FORCED, yet the runner immediately following him (R1) is still considered in a FORCE SITUATION! (WOW)" Both have to be tagged. But if the missed base was appealed the Wendelstedt interp considers it a miss of a forced base.
  9. Just keeping up with my tally. 3 balks with a dead ball on U-E. 1 more I'm aware of personally. The question is, if you explain the rule kick to the umpire, will he acknowledge his error? The one I personally have knowledge of was agreed with by half my chapter that if they fool him into pointing it live it's a balk.
  10. That might be. What little I saw looked like a slide straight toward Correa with a hand up ( natural or intended). Camera pulled away so who knows what happened.
  11. I don't think he could have complied with #2. It looks like he goes directly at Correa who has stepped to the outfield side of 2B.
  12. Did he attempt to make contact? "(j) Sliding to Bases on Double Play Attempts If a runner does not engage in a bona fide slide, and initiates (or attempts to make) contact with the fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play". I don't know what happened after the camera pulls but the MLBUM advises that with no or minimal contact the umpire will judge if hindrance took place. So while it appears he tried to violate the rule he was unsuccessful. No hindrance equals no call.
  13. Don't have DVR running so recalling from short term memory. Great DP by Altuve-Correa, Correa sidestepping to throw to 1B when I see R1 sliding towards him with no effect and not even close to 2B. Should have U2 called the MLB violation? "(j) Sliding to Bases on Double Play Attempts". There is a slight delay when seeing a violation at what ever level we call and sometimes if the out results at 1B we leave it alone and don't even raise a hand to signal the interference. Yes, I know we should call it upon seeing it but our natural reaction is to turn while thinking tht's INT and when a DP results sometimes we leave it alone if no runner scored. But do you think think this would/should have been called?
  14. I would consider the start of rocking to be TOP so I don’t think he could step off legally.
  15. Game 3 tonite WS 3rd inning bases loaded with ATL Freeman at 3B and L. Garcia, the 3 step windup, on the mound. I never would have thought he would wind up like that with R3 but he did. Announcers were all agog. Me too. Why didn't Freeman steal home? Well the thing is Garcia has a TOP and then takes a long time to go home and he could never throw to 3B. But if R3 took off on Garcia's first step forward, toward 3B, Garcia could modify his windup to go straight home without the backword step. So R3 would have to wait until the foot was in the air backword. Now Garcia becomes quicker to the plate once that first step is finished. You don't have to windup the same way every time. But I don't know why Freeman wouldn't have extended his lead at Garcia's TOP except maybe HOU catcher Maldonaldo would make him scoot back every time after receiving.
  16. I think I saw this recommendation in an old PBUC. If you are down to one in a MiLBUM game ask the teams to put a player on the bases. I can’t remember if they matched offense or defense to the player on the bases. I will do 90’ alone in scrimmage/friendly games. I do not do them behind the mound.
  17. The correct call in any code, is obstruction not interference. So you did not have an umpire, you had a guy wearing an umpire uniform. The run should have scored as the obstruction did not affect the advance of the runner. Did anyone protest or talk to the umpire about his ruling?
  18. In your OP let’s have the BR safe at 1B because the throw was wild but he missed 1B and then continued to 2B as R1 advances to 3B having missed 2B. Does appealing the BR miss first remove the force from R1 and his miss is no longer a force? Wendelstedt says no. If the force existed at the time of the miss it’s a forced base appeal. Was the following runner put out on a force play or is an appeal put out different? I would currently rule as per the Wendelstedt interp. A second appeal of R1 would be a missed force base for the third out and no run would score.
  19. See here where I wonder if MLB would allow a square windup pitcher to do that: https://umpire-empire.com/topic/76678-how-many-steps/?tab=comments#comment-401582 thanks for compiling the video.
  20. My post is about the number of steps not the direction although Garcia does step to his front and back and then to the plate and the rule still only references forward and backward. Even before the 2006/2007 rule change we allowed the free foot to step to the side. I have no problem with Garcia's delivery and wonder if MLB would allow a square windup pitcher to step forward, then backward then forward again with first step giving no advantage.
  21. Great job by Luis Garcia HOU pitcher tonight, Sat., 10/22/21. I only ask because a year ago I encountered a bunch of NCAA anal sycophants literally enforcing a new NCAA rule regarding the pitcher's steps. Would any of you literally enforce the OBR rule of one step forward and one backsword for this sideways pitcher considering that forward would be toward 3B for this sideways pitcher. Would you enforce it for a square windup pitcher? This is a rhetorical question.
  22. It can happen in my neck of the woods in HS. Most of the time they both know who's coming and want ones strike zone. They don't get to decide who has plate. WE do. Close knit group, we know our partner is lights out, I mean he really is great and I'm just good. He gets plate. It goes both ways. Most games we both nail everything. Rare occurrence is PU has a bad night. But regarding MLB, wouldn't they have the best evaluating tools, training and improving tools to take one of their umpires from poor performing to better performing? Or do they just say you sucked? Based on my pilot training experiences most student pilots would improve with instruction but a few would not respond well to that instruction. So is MLB giving remedial training to the guys that are substandard if they have a substandard grade level?
  23. Your bolded is referring to the order of a forced and non forced appeal. That order matters if it adds up to 3 outs. It doesn’t matter for two or more forced base appeals.
  24. I would have to ask @Senor Azul to check his latest BRD to see if Carl Childress communicated with Wendelstedt after we had a thread here in which Carl disagreed with the WRIM interp. I have a hazy recollection that Carl may have changed his "Appeals, Order of" to reflect the WRIM interp in some later BRDs. For sure in 2011 Carl cites PBUC, circa 2000, that forced order of appeals matter. So there have been changes to the interp over time but I'm going with the WRIM 2013 interp and I won't be springing for a new book. I would suggest @TOMUIC spring for the latest WRIM and see what it says. It's a good purchase anyway and will enhance your rules knowledge.
  25. Jimurray


    I caught some video and it was not the occurrence I glimpsed. Not a good night for Laz.
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