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A couple that have been bugging me.


Mister B
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R3 hit by batted ball while on the base, (LL) is R3 out if there was no way an infielder could make a play on the ball? 

Batter bunts, ball hits the plate bounces straight up and hits the bat again, while the batter is still holding it. Foul, fair or out? 

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28 minutes ago, Mister B said:

Batter bunts, ball hits the plate bounces straight up and hits the bat again, while the batter is still holding it. Foul, fair or out?

Foul if batter in the box, out if batter has (part of) one foot touching outside the box at all, IIRC.  No different than if it hit the batter's body.

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41 minutes ago, Mister B said:

R3 hit by batted ball while on the base, (LL) is R3 out if there was no way an infielder could make a play on the ball? ...

R3 is out if he is "touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder."  (LL Rule 7.08 (f))

Apply some judgment as to whether the ball passed the third baseman.

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6 minutes ago, ousafe said:

R3 is out if he is "touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder."  (LL Rule 7.08 (f))

Apply some judgment as to whether the ball passed the third baseman.

IF LL is the same as OBR (and I don't know for sure), then "passed" means "through the legs of or immediately past the fielder such that the runner could reasonably believe that the fiedler would have fielded the ball" and it does NOT mean "farther from home plate that the fielder."

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15 minutes ago, noumpere said:

IF LL is the same as OBR (and I don't know for sure), then "passed" means "through the legs of or immediately past the fielder such that the runner could reasonably believe that the fiedler would have fielded the ball" and it does NOT mean "farther from home plate that the fielder."

The LL RIM does not give any further guidance on "passed". A literal rules reader who was not aware of the OBR/MLBUM interp might consider the ball "passed" if the infielders were playing in and runner was hit by a ground ball in the gap that did not go thru or bye. I would not but if a protest went to WP who knows how they would rule.

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43 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Foul if batter in the box, out if batter has (part of) one foot touching outside the box at all, IIRC.  No different than if it hit the batter's body.

LL did not modify their 6.05(g) to the new OBR wording and a literal rules reader (I know of one or 2) would call that batter out on a "double hit". When OBR had the same wording some of us were aware of a vague interp that called it a foul ball but some were not aware. The RIM gives a little advice to allow the umpire to judge whether the bat hit the ball or the ball hit the bat but doesn't say to call it foul.

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18 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Foul if batter in the box, out if batter has (part of) one foot completely out of the box AND  touching (the ground) outside the box at all, IIRC.  No different than if it hit the batter's body.

...........is what he meant to say

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4 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

...........is what he meant to say

Thank you - as soon as I read your edit as saw where I went wrong.  Also - to clarify - is this correct?  --> Toes touching outside the box, heel off the ground but above box, batter out.  Toes touching outside the box, heel down touching in the box, foul.  

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55 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Thank you - as soon as I read your edit as saw where I went wrong.  Also - to clarify - is this correct?  --> Toes touching outside the box, heel off the ground but above box, batter out.  Toes touching outside the box, heel down touching in the box, foul.  

Currently, OBR requires both feet in a legal position touching the ground within the box and MLB batters have been called out with one foot in the air while the trail foot was still in the box. Back when OBR read the same as LL most of us would call that a foul ball. The 2008 BRD says that Fitzpatrick, an OBR honcho, agreed with how FED called it, foul if the ball hit the batter or his bat with no foot entirely outside the box. But it was a point not covered in the 2008 BRD for OBR.

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2018 Little League Rules Instruction Manual rule 6.05 - A batter is out when -

(f) a fair ball touches said batter before touching a fielder;

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:

When this happens it is almost always as a batter leaves the batter’s box. Make sure the batter is entirely out of the batter’s box when you call this, otherwise, call “foul ball”.

(g) after hitting or bunting a fair ball, the bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runner may advance. If the batter-runner drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play;

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:

The phrase “while holding the bat” has been removed from this rule. A bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory; the batter will be called out with the ball being dead immediately and runner(s) returning or staying at their time of pitch base(s).

Rule of thumb here is bat hits ball a second time versus ball hits bat a second time and of course, umpire’s judgment on intent to interfere.

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7.08 – Any runner is out when –

(f) Touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, no runners advance, except runners forced to advance;

LL RIM INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:

Rule of Thumb: Call the runner out if the ball has not passed or touched an infielder.

If the base runner is hit by a fair-batted ball while standing on the base, the runner is out, unless the ball has already passed an infielder OR it’s a declared Infield Fly. The base is not a sanctuary.

From the 2018 Little League case book (Make The Right Call):

Rule 7.08(f) Situation:  With the infield playing back, a batted ball strikes a runner who is standing on second base.

RULING:  The runner is out for interference, the ball is immediately dead and the batter-runner is awarded first base, no other runners may advance unless forced. (NOTE:  Bases are not a safe haven from being struck with a batted ball except in the case of an Infield Fly. If a runner is struck by an Infield Fly while standing on a base he will not be declared out.)

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